The M1919 is too ridiculous

Neglecting the M60 on Rambo squad (aka Obersoldaten), Rifles M1919 ability is too ridiculous.

It is in Infantry company, unlock in 3 CP, research is not required, 200% better than BAR, Gren LMG42/G43, Guards DP.
Comparing to Gren LMG42 upgrade, Gren can only have 1 LMG42 with 4 models, but Rifles can have two M1919 with 5 models.

When the squad is not in combat, they can go prone position, like Soviet Cons Hit the Dirt, the M1919 can suppress everything in the gunner sight within range, suppression fast like a MG42, dealing quite decent DPS, but in 360 degree.

One Rifles with the M1919 can lockdown an area like a .50 cal, but in 360 degree. You can even engage the German and activate the ability at the last second before the first shot and basically win the skirmish completely. Flank & nade is useless because everyone is suppressed. The only counter is indirect fire like mortar, smoke and panzer crush, but you can't kill the Rifles, only forcing them relocate or retreat. Combine with a forward Major retreat point and ambulance, it is extremely hard to dig the Rifles out.


There is one of the replay of USF winning the first skirmish easily, and won by Rifles base pin. Seriously who need a .50 cal while the Rifles doing the pinning job better?

•  
  

  1

  VS

  Porygon

  IIPLIICaptainSPrice

  Silly USF balance is silly

  by: Porygon map: Road to Kharkov

  1

  -

Not to mention any unit with m1919 will curbstomp even obersoldaten

*3 CP first skirmish wtf am I reading*

Anyway, have you heard of tanks?

Oh god not tanks again. Isn't that the counter to ubersoldaten. How about no. In typical relic fashion it will be nerfed into uselessness soon....

Neglecting the M60 on Rambo squad (aka Obersoldaten), Rifles M1919 ability is too ridiculous.

It is in Infantry company, unlock in 3 CP, research is not required, 200% better than BAR, Gren LMG42/G43, Guards DP.
Comparing to Gren LMG42 upgrade, Gren can only have 1 LMG42 with 4 models, but Rifles can have two M1919 with 5 models.

That costs 120 munitions.

Why is it that you are constantly complaining about a unit that has no vehicle snare whatsoever on a faction that has no vehicle snare whatsoever?

Build some fucking tanks. Reverse about 5 metres every time they use a rifle grenade. GG.

You're complaining about USF's core combat unit that is literally the only non-doctrinal infantry unit that they have, excluding the Captain and Lt. It is what makes up about 90% of the USF combat force and you're continuously trying to nerf it into the ground.

If you've let your opponent roll over you to the point he can equip all of his Rifle squads with 2 M1919s(That's 360MU in the early game assuming he has 3 Rifles, the typical build) then you've done something dramatically wrong.

And for those who claim M1919s "crush" Obersoldaten? Bullshit. That fight is cover-based. Obersoldaten have the potential to instantly pop multiple models before an M1919 even starts shooting.

And frankly the Grenadier vs Rifle matchup is not supposed to be even. One costs more manpower and their respective upgrades each cost more munitions. Deal with the reality that Grenadiers are not the top core infantry unit on the block anymore.

And on top of that, anyone who's played this game knows that no infantry heavy weapons shoot in a 360 degree arc. Doesn't matter if it's set up or not. They can only face one direction at once and it takes time for them to turn around and move around and get in position and reload and shoot. It isn't instant, it isn't a 360 degree arc of fire, and you're being intentionally disingenuous.

Tanks as a counter to Obersoldaten is acceptable because Obersoldaten are not OKW's core unit. LMG Grenadiers cannot suppress and only get one LMG. Riflemen are USF's core unit, can suppress, and can get 2. I think it's a little overkill. One M1919 and one BAR/Bazooka would be alright though.

That costs 120 munitions.

Why is it that you are constantly complaining about a unit that has no vehicle snare whatsoever on a faction that has no vehicle snare whatsoever?

Build some fucking tanks. Reverse about 5 metres every time they use a rifle grenade. GG.

You're complaining about USF's core combat unit that is literally the only non-doctrinal infantry unit that they have, excluding the Captain and Lt. It is what makes up about 90% of the USF combat force and you're continuously trying to nerf it into the ground.

If you've let your opponent roll over you to the point he can equip all of his Rifle squads with 2 M1919s(That's 360MU in the early game assuming he has 3 Rifles, the typical build) then you've done something dramatically wrong.

And for those who claim M1919s "crush" Obersoldaten? Bullshit. That fight is cover-based. Obersoldaten have the potential to instantly pop multiple models before an M1919 even starts shooting. 120 munitions is nothing when playing as usf, if it was there wouldn't be massive m1919 rifle blobs every where and riflemen and paratroopers with the lmg can reliablely defeat obersoldaten.


And frankly the Grenadier vs Rifle matchup is not supposed to be even. One costs more manpower and their respective upgrades each cost more munitions. Deal with the reality that Grenadiers are not the top core infantry unit on the block anymore.

120 munitions is nothing for us players, tons of game with riflemen blobs with m1919 proves that and rifle men and airborne can reliably defeat obers with them.

That costs 120 munitions.

I really wonder did you actually play this fucking game or too noob to understand the scenario.
120 munition is NOTHING to USF, I can equip 3-4 M1919 at the first second while I reach 3 CP.

Inf Company M1919 is 60 munition, and one M1919 is enough to make Rifles into a 360 MG.

And on top of that, anyone who's played this game knows that no infantry heavy weapons shoot in a 360 degree arc. Doesn't matter if it's set up or not. They can only face one direction at once and it takes time for them to turn around and move around and get in position and reload and shoot. It isn't instant, it isn't a 360 degree arc of fire, and you're being intentionally disingenuous.

Yeah of course it takes time to turn around, 0.5-1 sec?
And suppression start instantly and last for like 5-6 seconds even no one shooting them, of course it count as a 360 degree suppression output.
Suppressed Ober is helpless even against a M1919 Rifles in NO COVER.

And how do you get tanks while the Rifles base pin you? Watch the damn replay before you shittalk, can't you?

Yeah, this M1919 DO counter Ober, but don't forget they can win all infantry engagement.

Oh god not tanks again. Isn't that the counter to ubersoldaten. How about no. In typical relic fashion it will be nerfed into uselessness soon....

The counter to mass anti-infantry firepower is things that cannot be hurt by it.

Artillery and Tanks, son. The fuck are rifles going to do?

I really wonder did you actually play this fucking game or too noob to understand the scenario.
120 munition is NOTHING to USF, I can equip 3-4 M1919 at the first second while I reach 3 CP.

Saving all your munitions for bars? Great way to get dominated by machine guns and vehicles.

So the OP doesnt suggest a fix, but only complains? Some constructive thread. I would suggest something, but it would be more like "remove lmg's altogether", so...

The counter to mass anti-infantry firepower is things that cannot be hurt by it.

Artillery and Tanks, son. The fuck are rifles going to do?

All infantry should be either soft or hard countered by other infantry. This was the pinnacle of balance before WFA. And as much of a nasty poster Porygon is he has is a top 100 player. He knows how to play the game.

Saving all your munitions for bars? Great way to get dominated by machine guns and vehicles.

DAFUG? Are you talking 3v3 4v4? And I am not even talking about BAR.

Every competitive USF player now dump all their munition into purchasable guns, and rush for M15 AAHT.
You are talking like getting a panzer 4 at 3CP, seriously?

Tanks as a counter to Obersoldaten is acceptable because Obersoldaten are not OKW's core unit. LMG Grenadiers cannot suppress and only get one LMG. Riflemen are USF's core unit, can suppress, and can get 2. I think it's a little overkill. One M1919 and one BAR/Bazooka would be alright though.

What other non doctrinal infantry units do USF have? No infantry should require an armored response. See the post above.

So the OP doesnt suggest a fix, but only complains? Some constructive thread. I would suggest something, but it would be more like "remove lmg's altogether", so...

I point out the problems but I dunno how to fix. This leave to the discussion or Relic. I didn't say removing it, but currently it is way too insane.

I point out the problems but I dunno how to fix. This leave to the discussion or Relic. I didn't say removing it, but currently it is way too insane.

Both double MG squads and obers are pretty painful for their damage output. Both demand tanks or arty, but obers can be overwhelmed. Rifles currently are much harder to mob if they all MG up.

The big problem I really see with the Rifle squad is the rate of and freedom with suppression they can do. Sure, they're MG squads, but the ability to swap through targets is problematic.

If they made suppression ability tied, perhaps that would help? When in defensive stance, they can do a 'suppression fire' ability, locking them to target one squad for the next X seconds.

They would remain capable of pushing one single squad off, but a stationary rifle squad with 120muni sunk into it alongside commander bonuses probably should, really.

I point out the problems but I dunno how to fix. This leave to the discussion or Relic. I didn't say removing it, but currently it is way too insane.

I legit dont know how to fix this either. Distributing weapons for USF must have sounded like a cool idea, but its simply ridiculous. You can simply upgrade your rear archelon with two m1919's and beat obersoldaten - if youve got the munitions, then who needs riflemen? USF doesnt need a core infantry - upgrade any squad with LMG's and bazookas and you dont need support weapons. Its just easy to blob all your specialty squads and practically any squad that can upgrade to a weapon - and give them all weapons. Blobbing at its best. Or you dont need to blob as any squad with two m1919's can combat any two of the enemy's. Why shouldnt Ostheer get to upgrade panzergrenadiers, grenadiers, and pios with two LMG42's/schrecks, i mean its that ridiculous. Just my two cents in how American infantry can overrule most support. (You can practically win with only riflemen with BAR's and bazookas, as well as their smoke grenades)

When i first used infantry doctrine, i thought it was proposterous that at 3 CP your base gained the ability for free and m1919's cost the same as BAR's. Nice job COMPLETELY skipping BARs. It needs an upgrade price and its price per m1919 jacked up high - for starters.

Or slow down the Rifles a bit with M1919? That gun is like 14 KG, even 3 KG more than a schreck.

Or slow down the Rifles a bit with M1919? That gun is like 14 KG.

And a PTRS weighs 20 kg, and the guard has a hell of a time trying to shoot it - and the m1919 is perfectly wielded by every American soldier. It should be a lot more clumsy, if thats what you mean.

When i first used infantry doctrine, i thought it was proposterous that at 3 CP your base gained the ability for free and m1919's cost the same as BAR's. Nice job COMPLETELY skipping BARs. It needs an upgrade price and its price per m1919 jacked up high - for starters.

They're stat identical to an MG42- jacking their individual price up high would be a damn hard sell. Mg42, too, don't need any sort of a research cost- and commander specific unlocks never do.

It'd be pretty unreasonable to force either of those on the M1919.