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Walking Stuka

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vietnamabc
11 Jul 2014, 10:54 AM
#101
avatar of vietnamabc

Posts: 1063

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jul 2014, 05:39 AMwongtp


a katyusha and panzer werfer is a blob killer. it does not wipe squads, but it does fucks an area up, causing tons of damage to a massive blob. it is controlled by scatter and has a wide impact area, so to prevent insta wipe on individual squads, but fucks a blob enough because of the wide space the blob occupies.
.

Uhm Katy and Werfer barely deals any dmg after the nerf and they can only be effective if you park very close to the front => super risky. Getting the Stuka means u delay armor, countering Stuka with light vehicle like T-70 or AA HT and you spread out the map because If OKW get a Stuka they got no mobile AT, with fuel convert also means they barely got any muni to get shreck let alone mines.
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BirdistheWord7
11 Jul 2014, 10:55 AM
#102
avatar of BirdistheWord7

Posts: 8

Completely agree.

Particularly on small maps this thing is a beast and very hard to counter if used properly.

I personally agree with the idea of the barrage having some scatter to it. Keep it in a straight line, but the further back you are the more scatter along that line. This way if the OKW want a precise attack they have to get in close which at least gives the other team a slightly better chance of attacking the bloody thing.





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Aerohank
11 Jul 2014, 10:59 AM
#103
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1

The Walking Stuka is also considerably more durable than the panzerwerfer and katyuska.

A panzerwerfer can easily be killed by a M3+guards or T-70 sneak attack. An attack from something heavier like a T34/76 will take it out in one go.
Likewise, a katyuska can be taken out rapidly by a cheap up gunned scout car, or even just by an infantry squad with a panzerschrek.

The Walking Stuka on the other hand requires an actual tank to destroy. Meaning that the enemy has to take a big risk if he want to try and take it out.

On top of this all, the Walking Stuka is more or less just as effective at long range as it is at close range. Whereas the other, more vulnerable rocket artillery pieces need to get close to the enemy to have at least some sort of impact, the Walking stuka can happily blast away form max range without loss of efficiency.
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SuperKeitel
11 Jul 2014, 11:05 AM
#104
avatar of SuperKeitel

Posts: 158

If the OKW have a stuka and you don't have a tank to kill it = learn to tech instead of massive infantry blob with bars. And DONT TAKE US THE LAST THING WE HAVE AGAINST GAY MAXIM AND .50CAL SPAM
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Kronosaur0s
11 Jul 2014, 11:33 AM
#105
avatar of Kronosaur0s

Posts: 1701

The only thing I would change to Stuka is to not wipe so often RETREATING squads, everything else is fine. It has longest cooldown ever, so you must choose carefully what/where to drop its payload.
Blaue Division - The best corp

BPX - Black Phoenix, Clan leader.
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OZtheWiZARD
11 Jul 2014, 12:09 PM
#106
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jul 2014, 10:43 AMwongtp


there's a major difference between a hard hitting attack and the ability to wipe everything on demand. sure there are times i get lucky and escape with 1 man left or there are times that the rockets miss me due to a small gap in and im saved.

but there are also times where im hit so badly, and instantly losing squads. people defend the stuka only see that

it is their only effective anti support teams/blob weapon, the ISG is just a mortar.
losing it will mean support teams are harder to counter.
it cost 100fuel so it is okay.
it takes a long time to recharge.

what they dont see are

superb mobility, medium tanks will have to really open themselves up to dangers while hunting for the stuka since it can run deeping into its lines after releasing its payload.
other factions do need the support teams to counter their infantry and tanks.
destroys support weapon at times.
almost impossible to retreat from.
teching for stuka counters cost just as much and getting the unit to do so also has an extra cost.
it is the most effective artillery in the game bar none.
OKW effective anti armour options are also available without fuel. racketenwerfer, volks with schrecks and mines.

i also thought it was quite intuitive, after the 1st stuka shot, start preparing for anti armour because they will hunt you down. you can cut a little AI down because you have already invalidated their support teams.


If you will bunch up your units all together, you can get hit really badly by Stuka, especially when your opponent will time the barrage well, but when you spread your troops and support weapon widely he will only be able to hit one things at the time. It's attack field isn't that big + it has to position itself. If you deploy your forces parallel with his he will have to flank you first if he wants to hit more than one unit. Remember that.
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drChengele
11 Jul 2014, 12:38 PM
#107
avatar of drChengele
Patrion 14

Posts: 640 | Subs: 1

there's a major difference between a hard hitting attack and the ability to wipe everything on demand
Yes. And if the OKW had such a weapon it would present a significant balance problem. I've had it used against me and I've used it myself. Maybe I am biaased because I've seen the thing in alpha pre-nerf. Now THAT was a nuclear missile launcher.

Again, everybody is talking about the rockets' impact. But why does nobody factor in its price and cooldown time? If it can't wipe bunched up weapon teams on demand, then what should it do, for its cost and placement?

About taking out retreating units - surely it is impossible to precisely time the Stuka barrage to respond to a retreat... right? I mean, it takes time to respond, to aim it, then for the rockets to fall.

Even if the barrage hits by accident, if more than one of your squads is hit by a barrage upon retreat, that means they were blobbed to begin with. Stuka is anti-weapon team and anti-blob weapon.
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DexterM
11 Jul 2014, 12:54 PM
#108
avatar of DexterM

Posts: 11

An awesome hutburt I see about a unit that in my opinion is OKAY. RNG on that thing is horrible. Also an early Stuka is a huge and very risky investment but it is OKW only counter to USA and Soviet blobs of shit infantry. If you are stupid enough that every barrage hurts you than it's your problem and your gameplay sucks. It's 6 ( SIX ) rockets. Still blob everything together :D
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Brachiaraidos
11 Jul 2014, 13:19 PM
#109
avatar of Brachiaraidos

Posts: 627

As someone who has played OKW- this thing is filth if you use it right. And the reason is almost entirely the lack of any scatter on the vet 0 ability, and the area saturation due to the speed of the walking barrage.

Priests can get a creeping barrage for 50 munitions, and have to load between every shell. Stukas get them free at vet 0 with no shell reload.

What that means is that you never need to bother firing it during firefights unless a bunch of support weapons happen to exist in a line- not a blob, just any arrangement you can draw a line between two or move- and wipe both.

What you can do in a more abusive style is learn the retreat path of the map, hold off on the trigger, hide your stuka, and wait for your opponent to fall back. And then wipe his army all at once.
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Kronosaur0s
11 Jul 2014, 13:25 PM
#110
avatar of Kronosaur0s

Posts: 1701

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jul 2014, 13:19 PMBrachiaraidos


Priests can get a creeping barrage for 50 munitions, and have to load between every shell. Stukas get them free at vet 0 with no shell reload.




And That, is the difference between normal artillery and rocket-artillery
Blaue Division - The best corp

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JHeartless
11 Jul 2014, 13:28 PM
#111
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637

SOMEONE FOR THE LOVE OF TRIPE POST A REPLAY OF A 1v1 and 2v2 with a Walking Stuka attaining more than 30 kills! By this thread it must be every game. It must be leveling an entire army by itself!!!11111 And yet somehow RNGesus hates me and mine can get a Zis right in its line and kill one crewman...

Seriously one of you guys has to have a replay of this...or are you all 3v3 and 4v4 at which point who cares?
jump backJump back to quoted post5 Mar 2015, 21:57 PMREforever
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
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MorgolKing
11 Jul 2014, 13:31 PM
#112
avatar of MorgolKing

Posts: 148

What a bunch of whiners.

This thing costs 100 fuel. For OKW that's a MASSIVE investment. It also has a long cooldown and is very vulnerable if bought early because OKW will have no tank support while it's opposition is almost guaranteed to have armor.

And when are you guys going to stop making balance suggestions based on 3v3s and 4v4s? The game's balance is based on 1v1 and 2v2 as it should be. If you micro better you can play 1v1 and 2v2s and learn what the real balance issues are.

When Katitof is telling you not to nerf a german unit, you know you've stepped way over the line.
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Brachiaraidos
11 Jul 2014, 13:31 PM
#113
avatar of Brachiaraidos

Posts: 627

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jul 2014, 13:25 PMKronosaur0s
And That, is the difference between normal artillery and rocket-artillery


Even the Werfer and Kat have to make do with scatter. Both of them take longer for all of their rockets to impact- especially the Kat. You can't use them to draw a line through your opponent's retreating units.


For what it's worth, next time I'm at crossing in the woods I'll grab a replay of retreat path Stukas for you. Vet 4 is what they usually end at- sadly, yet to see a vet 5.
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gokkel
11 Jul 2014, 13:33 PM
#114
avatar of gokkel

Posts: 542

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jul 2014, 13:31 PMBrachiaraidos


Even the Werfer and Kat have to make do with scatter. Both of them take longer for all of their rockets to impact- especially the Kat. You can't use them to draw a line through your opponent's retreating units.


For what it's worth, next time I'm at crossing in the woods I'll grab a replay of retreat path Stukas for you. Vet 4 is what they usually end at- sadly, yet to see a vet 5.


Vet4? I got like nearly 100 kills in my best game with Stuka if I remember correctly, and it still was far away from reaching Vet4. I would like to see such a replay.
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JHeartless
11 Jul 2014, 13:35 PM
#115
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637

Yes please someone show us on the replay where the walking stuka touched you...please not super spam mode replays...
jump backJump back to quoted post5 Mar 2015, 21:57 PMREforever
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
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Katitof
11 Jul 2014, 13:37 PM
#116
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jul 2014, 13:28 PMJHeartless
SOMEONE FOR THE LOVE OF TRIPE POST A REPLAY OF A 1v1 and 2v2 with a Walking Stuka attaining more than 30 kills! By this thread it must be every game. It must be leveling an entire army by itself!!!11111 And yet somehow RNGesus hates me and mine can get a Zis right in its line and kill one crewman...

Seriously one of you guys has to have a replay of this...or are you all 3v3 and 4v4 at which point who cares?


That would be any random game by Cataclaw when he decides to go for stucka for example.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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JHeartless
11 Jul 2014, 13:57 PM
#117
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jul 2014, 13:37 PMKatitof


That would be any random game by Cataclaw when he decides to go for stucka for example.


Yet I havent seen a single Replay yet. Surely someone must have saved one so I can see what it is I am doing wrong and why I feel that everytime I wasted 100 fuel on that unit I got less out of it than I do UBERSOLDATEN...
jump backJump back to quoted post5 Mar 2015, 21:57 PMREforever
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
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The amazing Chandler
11 Jul 2014, 14:13 PM
#118
avatar of The amazing Chandler

Posts: 1355

I dont get this thread. As i remember, OKW is designed to be like it is. Very few units but extremly powerfull.
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Khan
11 Jul 2014, 14:18 PM
#119
avatar of Khan

Posts: 578

Everyone bitching about Stuka 'wiping everything' along its path, please post a replay to prove your claim. I've literally seen maxims not suffer a single casualty even while being in the firing line. The only time I've seen the thing rack up more than 10 kills in a barrage is when my opponent is blobbing 3+ squads. I reiterate; most of the people whining on this thread are complaining because the Stuka instawipes their blobs, which is a fair punishment for blobbing in the first place.

For reference, check out the replay I've posted in this thread of a 2v2 against the OP.
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MilkaCow
11 Jul 2014, 14:22 PM
#120
avatar of MilkaCow

Posts: 577

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jul 2014, 13:28 PMJHeartless
SOMEONE FOR THE LOVE OF TRIPE POST A REPLAY OF A 1v1 and 2v2 with a Walking Stuka attaining more than 30 kills!


http://www.coh2.org/replay/19804/vet5-walking-stuka

Damn rare occurrence though :D

The Walking Stuka is hard to hit with. It requires far more skill to hit good with it in my opinion. Extremely distinct sound and that "line" where the rockets impact. If your opponent spreads his squads it rarely happens that this hits more than 1 squad.
Panzerwerfer / Katyusha saturate and area. The chance to hit a squad is far higher with it, even if you aimed badly.

It's something of comparing a sniper and a shotgun - The sniper gives you a better hit if you aim well, but the shotgun gives you a good hit at any time. If you want to get most use of the Walking Stuka I'd suggest bombing tanks / light vehicles if possible to get vet and faster barrages. Don't use a barrage whenever it's ready but try to use it only when you can maximize destruction (after a retreat in the retreat path or in base after retreat, when your opponent is repairing tanks after a fight). That's where they shine and can really really hurt :D
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