Walking Stuka

anyone find it annoying the entire barrage area must be in range in order to fire?? Why doesn't the damn thing move into range and fire?

Because it doesn't launch classic barrage?

Or, heaven forbid, you're playing a 2v2 with an Ost player who not only has his own tanks, but is dumping fuel into your OKW opponent.

Yes, can someone quickly explain the synergy? Last thing I heard is that the Opel Blitz now only gives its bonus to the Ostheer player who owns it. But what about caches in team games with both OH and OKW?

Yes, can someone quickly explain the synergy? Last thing I heard is that the Opel Blitz now only gives its bonus to the Ostheer player who owns it. But what about caches in team games with both OH and OKW?

Caches work the same, with the usual income penalty. More impressive is a muni cache or two and Luftwaffe Supply, which quickly swamps an OKW player in more fuel than they could have ever dreamed of.

No penalty involved for picking up boxes, so your munitions expenditure not only nets healthy fuel income but also could arguably be said to be getting an extra half's worth out of it going to an KW player

Alternatives for synergy include the ability to go for the already dodgy elite troops and slap it onto some of those infantry packing 5 levels of vet. You'll often get them three or foul levels from just one pop of the ability- and it can help keep their Vehicles very, very efficient at what they do.

Early game vetted Kubelwagens are great. Well worth 25 fuel

Caches work the same, with the usual income penalty. More impressive is a muni cache or two and Luftwaffe Supply, which quickly swamps an OKW player in more fuel than they could have ever dreamed of.

No penalty involved for picking up boxes, so your munitions expenditure not only nets healthy fuel income but also could arguably be said to be getting an extra half's worth out of it going to an KW player

Alternatives for synergy include the ability to go for the already dodgy elite troops and slap it onto some of those infantry packing 5 levels of vet. You'll often get them three or foul levels from just one pop of the ability- and it can help keep their Vehicles very, very efficient at what they do.

Early game vetted Kubelwagens are great. Well worth 25 fuel

except luftwaffe supply fuel boxes cost 200 manpower

except luftwaffe supply fuel boxes cost 200 manpower

And instantly provide a benefit that cache would give you after almost 17 minutes given they survive that long.

Early game vetted Kubelwagens are great. Well worth 25 fuel

Hear hear, early vetted Kubel or early vetted Flak HT is really insane, those things just murder inf without mercy.

Because it doesn't launch classic barrage?

whats a "classic" barrage, non-creeping? if so what's the difference? If I tell it to fire a regular barrage (IE a priest) it will move up and fire it.

yeah, youre right there. i meant on a general scale of how fast things die in the game



as a huge fan of the stuka, i dont need to watch replays im using it as often as it seems viable and i seen ppl getting destroyed by it and ppl easily avoiding almost all barrages. i consider myself quite able to properly use it, yet there are ppl who simply know how to not get nuked to oblivion.
maybe its because you play 2v2 only and theres more to worry about on the battlfield at the same time, which kind of prevents you from focusing on dodging stukas. also its harder to flank that little monster with 2 players defending it. but nerfing it would totally nullify its viability in 1v1s, since getting one there is a huuuuge risk (no allies to get vehicles and 100 fuel invested in a 1.5 cd wpn)

then how about you give me advice to my play then, watch it then tell me what should i do. should i hide in my base and cede everything to them?

so in the end, 1v1 takes precedence as far as balance is concerned?

the reason why the stuka is so popular in build orders is because it is overperforming, not for cost maybe, but definitely for its ease of use. not even once should an artillery piece be part of a core army composition like infantry or tanks, instead they are reactionary weapons against defensive play styles. an artillery piece exist to bleed a defensive static opponent but is generally countered by mobile infantry and tanks. and even when bleeding them, they usually need substantial investment, like 2x, for any hope in squad wipe. if not they are usually just model damage and does nothing to a well prepared defensive line with staggered formations and well spread units.

however, stuka is just too effective. you only need 1 of them, easily wiping infantry and support teams. it comes early, it fires all its rockets and have a very small spread, also its rockets land almost immediately after it has fired its 1st shot. not to mention they are also extremely mobile. all these make them extremely reliable at doing immense damage in a very small time frame at very low risk. yes it takes a while to reload, but every 1.5mins for a good chance to wipe squads is too good a deal.

at 10mins, most armies are already looking at 200+ mp per min gain, at every 1.5mins, thats about 300mp gain. a stuka has a good chance of wiping all sorts of infantry squads if fired properly. which means even a maxim wipe, is a pretty good deal considering he is 240mp down and has only 60mp for reinforcements. now this causes outright haemorrhage to the player, that is not bleeding him. this is pretty much slicing his throat with blood splurting out and he dies shortly after, that is what a stuka is.

comparatively to other artillery guns, the only one that comes the closest at 10min artillery is katyushas which does not have the same killing power. if the katyusha has any similar killing power, the crying at this forums will be huge.

so in the end, 1v1 takes precedence as far as balance is concerned?

nope. but a nerf would render it useless in 1v1, while its current state is okay in 2v2. again my opinion

then how about you give me advice to my play then, watch it then tell me what should i do. should i hide in my base and cede everything to them?

ill watch that replay tomorrow, but again ive seen people dodge my barrages pretty well. also i had situations where it was "spot on" and rarely killed anything. btw there is scatter. the targeting line is way thicker than the actual aoe of the rockets. it also doesnt fill the whole line sometimes. its just relatively accurate compared to kats/werfers

it might be the little fanboy speaking here, but i think youd be pretty pissed if they gave it a circular area and scatter. hitting clustered troops / wpn-teams with a line of rockets isnt that effective since some rockets tend to overshoot and some land infront of the targets. a circle of 6 rockets instantly raining down would be way more deadly imo

the reason why the maxim is so popular in build orders is because it is overperforming, not for cost maybe, but definitely for its ease of use.

fix the maxim spam and then talk about nerfing stuka.

fix the maxim spam and then talk about nerfing stuka.

OKW infantry support guns fixes it.

Wehr mortars and snipers fixes it good as well.

Thou that requires to actually adapting to your opponents BO and I know how incredibly hard it is to certain players.

OKW infantry support guns fixes it.

Wehr mortars and snipers fixes it good as well.

Thou that requires to actually adapting to your opponents BO and I know how incredibly hard it is to certain players.

lol wehr snipers? i agree on mortars.
but okw is completely overrun on the map by the time the support gun shows up.

@darth, dont edit what i said and put shit in my mouth.

like katioff said, OKW ISG fixes it. sturm pios fixes it. fallshirm spawning from behind them fixes it too.

there's a solid tactic called counter suppress. mg34 can counter suppress it and you can move volks and sturms in. since maxims do nothing when suppressed.

maxims are horrible against buildings, if maxim spam is dominating you, use buildings, he might not have enough conscripts with molotovs to deal with them. a sturmpio in a building is extremely potent, they make close range heavy cover useless with the dps they can put out with and long range rifle shots are going to take a long time.

here, more than enough tactics to deal with them. whether you can execute them, thats another issue.

nope. but a nerf would render it useless in 1v1, while its current state is okay in 2v2. again my opinion

ill watch that replay tomorrow, but again ive seen people dodge my barrages pretty well. also i had situations where it was "spot on" and rarely killed anything. btw there is scatter. the targeting line is way thicker than the actual aoe of the rockets. it also doesnt fill the whole line sometimes. its just relatively accurate compared to kats/werfers

it might be the little fanboy speaking here, but i think youd be pretty pissed if they gave it a circular area and scatter. hitting clustered troops / wpn-teams with a line of rockets isnt that effective since some rockets tend to overshoot and some land infront of the targets. a circle of 6 rockets instantly raining down would be way more deadly imo

its definitely overperforming in 2v2. it was never okay in the 1st place. people who say that they are fine is because they are effective, while im saying they are too effective for something thats a point-click-watch things die unit.

yes, please watch the replay and let me know what i should do, that doesnt deviate too far off my strat.

if they gave it a circular area and scatter, there's a much lesser chance for 2 rockets to land on troops can wipe everything out. also you are assuming i clustered my troops, which is why i need you to watch it and tell me how the hell if any of those squad wipe strikes are a blob.

thank you, if you ever get around to watching it.

Soviets are over performing in 2v2 as well as you can have access to every tier and that hasn't been fixed.
Lets not compromised 1v1 balance due to team games issues.

Soviets are over performing in 2v2 as well as you can have access to every tier and that hasn't been fixed.
Lets not compromised 1v1 balance due to team games issues.

Oh man. Good jokes. You're a funny guy.

Seriously, though, Walking stukas are too accurate in any game mode. In a game with predictable retreat paths, choke points, lumbering setup teams and tiny maps, the walking stuka lands too accurately and too fast.

Ever compare the creeping stuka to the creeping barrage on the Priest? The one it needs vet and munitions to use? A linear progression that takes a god damn age, and is properly avoidable, and can't just trololol the bridges for retreating infantry on trois point for 100% squad wipes.

Soviets are over performing in 2v2 as well as you can have access to every tier and that hasn't been fixed.
Lets not compromised 1v1 balance due to team games issues.

wtf does a maxim have to do with this?

Soviets are over performing in 2v2 as well as you can have access to every tier and that hasn't been fixed.
Lets not compromised 1v1 balance due to team games issues.

please elaborate. what do you mean by access to every tier, i really dont get it.

overperforming in what sense?

if you mean crappy conscripts scaling, penals that does not provide any value over conscripts, AT guns being the only real non doctrinal anti tank unit yet have only half the dps of paks, su85 comes late and is clumsy to use while being dedicated AT, t34/76 and 85 has no utility skills and escape mechanism despite being heavily dependent on rear shots. guardsmen are evenly matched by upgraded grenadiers and outmatched by all other elite infantry like obersoldaten and fallsshirmjagers despite a hefty upgrade cost and a premium mp cost.

i have no idea what a maxim has to do here either, someone pulls shit out of their ass and decides to derail the thread i suppose, still some of us gave constructive solutions to his woes.

Soviets are over performing in 2v2 as well as you can have access to every tier and that hasn't been fixed.
Lets not compromised 1v1 balance due to team games issues.

Thats different to OKW players building different trucks at start how exactly?

Because you know, if one is somehow broken, so is the other.

Yes:
- nerf walking stuka;
- nerf sturmpios;
- etc

And give OKW back its normal fuel income + ability to build caches.

Agree?

I think this is the only solution because to manny people are missing the real picture and the unique feature of this army. This army needs to have UBERunits because this is the only chance it got, as spaming is the only chance Soviets have in early game. This is a verry riscky approach for okw players because EVERY LOST UNIT can cost them the game. Can't you see this?! It's not Soviet or American case! People want to transform OKW into a fuel starved Ostheer. How much flawless do you want your victories against OKW to be?
Isn't enough that playing OKW is the most challenging from all factions?
Isn't enough that they can barely build vehicles?
How would you stop a maxim wall? Or a zis+maxim wall? With infantry, right?! The wurframen is a punishing weapon for blobing (no matter if we are talking about maxim or infantry blobs). There is absolutely no reliable range weapon at the Axis side. Howitzers do shit (german howitzers, russian ones are fine!), Pzwerfers do shit. Ok, is the Axis allowed to have something to work with?
Could you stop whining about how OP OKW units are? They are supposed to be this way. DEAL WITH IT.