Ostheer vs the USF

What can you do to win have a chance in this match-up? The US infantry outdamages your grens at all ranges in equal cover. One rifle squad can take on 2 grens on it's own if grens are in yellow and the rifle squad is in green cover.

When you get T2 up you start to kind of get back into the game but the US' instasuppress-instakill-everything halftrack comes out so quick it nullifies any chances you might have had and the game is a real uphill manpower and munitions struggle.

You don't have a chance which you can thank Relic for because this is how I used to be successful until the last 2 matches i had today vs US forces as wehrmact.

my build order started w/ a pio,mg,gren,mg or pio,mg,mg,gren since grens have no use against us forces except for fausting light/heavy vehicles and teching to T2 i get the scout car to chase off infantry since u have to upgrade to T3 at hq to have flame HT which you could do cause i stop at T3 and spam panzer vi's

below are the issues w/ wehrmact units i've been having vs US the last 2 matches

1. MG42's by my experience are the only unit capable of halting all US forces infantry take forever to start firing even when not in structures and don't suppress for shit which in return get outflanked

2. I only build 1 gren and or assault gren because both are like butter getting pierced with a knife w/ US infantry representing the knife

3. things I have noticed in early game is that i cant even get out 2 or 3 of my squads on the field before they completely overwhelm the map which is BS cause i have to go through the effort of constructing a infantrie kompanie and getting a pio to support my other pio w/ map control which still seems to not help but im gonna try a strat w/out building second pio to have more fighting units even though i'll lose map control.

Definitely not unbeatable.

First order of business would have to be adequate placement of MGs.

Also, pair up your gren squads to give them more punch (you sacrifice a bit of mobility and map control, but it pays off in the long run.

Muni cache is important, lmg42s really help against the americans and force them to get bars or browning lmgs.

The most important step is: OSTWIND

get an ostwind ASAP, and try to quickly find their "forward hq", if it is a competent american player, they will likely have an ambulance hanging out somewhere. Knock that out and your ostwind can run the field for quite awhile (Attributed to the fact that americans have abhorrent armor build times)

Then pz4 spam or call-in armor

GG

ps.
People need to stop being so dramatic, balance is surprisingly well done this go around. Just new units and tactics, hence new L2P issues

Don't forget that US is very susceptible to mines, unless they went tier 3 they will have a difficult time clearing S-mines until tanks come in.

Edit: I was confused about something. Disregard.

these guys are easier then the soviets.

1. use your snipers. they have no counters and each rifleman cost 28 mp making the siper very efficient.

2. create 2 scout cars and upgun them at this point even his quad is not going to do anything against them and since rifles dont have homing at nades it forces the us player to buy bazooka's giving your infantry with lmg's more power.

3. get those p4's out as they are effective against all us armor safe for their TD's but then you should use some paks.

Avoid open maps and Kholodny right hand side. You best shot is Tiger + Pak combo on small, campy maps.

Tobis: REs can get mine sweepers anytime for 30 muni.

IMO the Ostheer vs USF is the most broken match-up in the favor of the USF.

The most reliable way is just double mgs with several grens (get several lmg upgrades too). The only way US can counter are grenades (smoke) and light vehicles. Use the pioneer as a capper or close range support (keep them close to mg42s to soak in damage). You can even get flamethrowers on them.

Then get a pak for reliable AT, and a T3 vehicle to push. T2 vehicles are less effective, but T3 performs very well against US.

Hold out until you get a tiger, which will stomp the US.

The most reliable way is just double mgs with several grens (get several lmg upgrades too). The only way US can counter are grenades (smoke) and light vehicles. Use the pioneer as a capper or close range support (keep them close to mg42s to soak in damage). You can even get flamethrowers on them.

Then get a pak for reliable AT, and a T3 vehicle to push. T2 vehicles are less effective, but T3 performs very well against US.

Hold out until you get a tiger, which will stomp the US.

Nope and nope, if you spend all your muni to lmgs M20 or M15 will rape you. Pios do shit vs every us unit.

T3 is useless 'cause of m36 and 57mm and you won't have enough fuel for tiger.

Stall with T1, T2 and wait for Tiger.

Best way to fight the US-Forces? Definetly good Mg 42 micro. The Riflman dont have grenades in the early or can flank you like cons can. They dont have an early mortar too, no M3 spam or Snipers ).Just like in the older CoHs MG 42s rules!

Try to safly vet up your grens and give out SOME Mg42s if possible ..... Grens aren't elite like on the eastern front now ... just normal infantry.

Pak 40's are so much better than the Püppchen, it vets extremly fast and has a great range (important against AA-Halftruck, M36 and almost every vehicle). Call in some Opels so you can go to T3 if possible, or just wait for Tigers ....... and pretty much gg ..

The Ostheer dont have such huge issues like the OKW, so if you want to play a solid Wehrmacht, go for the good old Ostheer ^^

I've mostly been playing basic matches against friends, so I have not seen a whole lot of different BOs. I've been doing well with gren, gren, mg, mg, sniper. Depending on the map, I might reverse the order of the last two. The sniper is very good against US, and is lots of fun to use. It is excellent for decrewing the 4-man weapon teams. Just ensure that it doesn't get caught out of position.
Panzergrenadiers are not as prone to dying horribly anymore, so one shreck squad can be useful - particularly on a map like... the new winter one, which has lots of places to hide in ambush. At least one pak for AT.
Does anyone know at about what time to expect vehicles from the US player? I generally would get a pak at about 11 minutes against Soviets, as you could reasonably expect something from T3 by then.

PIV and Ostwind are both decent. The Ostwind is especially nice for dealing with blobs and for shooting down that crazy Airborne commander rocket plane. Tiger: good.

I have been trying to focus on the munitions early game to get a quick healing bunker, plus LMGs and possibly panzershrecks (depending on the map). The sniper is hard for the US to counter, and it lets you put on some serious manpower bleed. Sticking close to buildings is good for dealing with Volley Fire.

First order of business would have to be adequate placement of MGs.

yea I don't place hmg's in structures anymore unless i really have to but even adequate placement of MGs is sometimes not as sufficient but better than a structure usually.

I've been doing well with gren, gren, mg, mg, sniper. Depending on the map, I might reverse the order of the last two.

Going with that many T1 units leaves you open to the AAHT, which will end the game on the spot. Sniper could work but with the precariousness of the matchup as it is I don't think such a risky unit is advisable, at least early on.

I go with the first pioneer building the barracks, second pioneer capping and denying buildings. Especially important since REs in a building cannot be dislodged without a mortar, and you can't afford a mortar early since you need AT. Flamers are equipped on the pioneers ASAP for flank defense, then S-mines/tellers/medic bunkers as required. Then 3 MGs, placed defensively. I try to cover at least one fuel/munition point so my income isn't terrible. I don't play aggressive because the moment you over-extend, the US can flank and it's a nightmare pushing back up (though the flamers help against rifles stalling in buildings). No grenadiers because they lose to REs, Rifles, and Assault Engineers, and there's no need for faust.

Subsequently, I get a Pak out for the AAHT, followed by a second pak if he doesn't suicide the AAHT in. If he does, then Panzergrenadier/Halftrack/Mortar depending on the situation. Either way, I try to get 3 Paks and a Halftrack for maximum camp power so the MGs can stay in the field. The mortar deals with ambulance + major or 4 man crewed weapons well. Then follow up with StuG E, which allows you to deal with unsuppressed lieutenants or bar'd/m191a1'd riflemen. Finally Tiger, which you should win the game with the rest of your army if you keep away from the P47 rocket run.

Going with that many T1 units leaves you open to the AAHT, which will end the game on the spot.

How, exactly? He buys himself 2-3 minutes and maybe a few resource points, but this game is so forgiving as long as you don't lose any squads you can just poop out a puma or something. With that kind of start you're going to have map control against Americans anyway if he doesn't get early nades.

You can't end a game in less than 25 minutes no matter what you do, unless the opponent throws in the towel.

Ostwind is definitely a brilliant investment, that's for sure. It was always part of my build order/strat anyway, but now it's even more essential.

I have also found myself microing the hell out of my MGs, more so than ever before. I had a game earlier today were it took no time at all for both my MGs to end up vet 3. Bunkers are also a good investment to protect a flank IMO. I've always been a fan, even with the nerf.

My strat of Grens with G43s (vetted), double MG, Ostwind, double tiger (usually reach atleast vet 2) and 2 pios with a healthy setup of bunkers, mines and wire is doing me pretty well against USF.

:-)

How, exactly? He buys himself 2-3 minutes and maybe a few resource points, but this game is so forgiving as long as you don't lose any squads you can just poop out a puma or something. With that kind of start you're going to have map control against Americans anyway if he doesn't get early nades.

You can't end a game in less than 25 minutes no matter what you do, unless the opponent throws in the towel.

As ostheer, if you don't have a pak out he drives into your base, kills all your squads and takes your MGs while also capturing the entire map, which is game over. Unless you're suggesting getting 7CP for the puma in 6 minutes...

As ostheer, if you don't have a pak out he drives into your base, kills all your squads and takes your MGs while also capturing the entire map, which is game over. Unless you're suggesting getting 7CP for the puma in 6 minutes...

Just stand in the arc of your base machine guns and those will kill his halftrack.


I've killed flame halftracks in my base with just infantry before, same tactics work here.

Just stand in the arc of your base machine guns and those will kill his halftrack.


I've killed flame halftracks in my base with just infantry before, same tactics work here.

The AAHT has twice the front armor and three times the rear armor compared to the flamer track. At the same time, the Dshk base MG has more penetration than the MG42 bunker if I'm not wrong. The AAHT has a longer range than the MG bunker, and of course can just drive out of the arc into the base itself. As long as it doesn't get fausted (which it shouldn't unless you're bad, since it has extreme range, suppresses, and kills infantry up close in one burst) it can leave the base and self repair in about 30 seconds, meaning the base MGs really don't mean much.

Not to mention, if retreating everything to base and relying on the MG bunkers to save you is an integral part of the ostheer vs usf matchup, something is seriously, seriously wrong.

The AAHT has twice the front armor and three times the rear armor compared to the flamer track. At the same time, the Dshk base MG has more penetration than the MG42 bunker if I'm not wrong. The AAHT has a longer range than the MG bunker, and of course can just drive out of the arc into the base itself. As long as it doesn't get fausted (which it shouldn't unless you're bad, since it has extreme range, suppresses, and kills infantry up close in one burst) it can leave the base and self repair in about 30 seconds, meaning the base MGs really don't mean much.

Not to mention, if retreating everything to base and relying on the MG bunkers to save you is an integral part of the ostheer vs usf matchup, something is seriously, seriously wrong.

I didn't say it was an integral part, I said it's what you can do if he pushes into your base. It shouldn't even get to that point at all.

In order to rush the AAHT, you have to skip grenades, which are America's only early game counter to machine guns. You should have most of the map capped. You can also use mines. Teller and HT mines for example. Upgunned Scout car can beat it easily just by staying in front of it, due to its firing arc. You can use smoke mortars to neuter its effectiveness, you can spread your infantry out so they don't all get suppressed at once. There's lots of things you can do, so instead of just pronouncing the match up imbalanced go and try things.



Too many threads with people whining for nerfs already.

I didn't say it was an integral part, I said it's what you can do if he pushes into your base. It shouldn't even get to that point at all.

In order to rush the AAHT, you have to skip grenades, which are America's only early game counter to machine guns. You should have most of the map capped. You can also use mines. Teller and HT mines for example. Upgunned Scout car can beat it easily just by staying in front of it, due to its firing arc. You can use smoke mortars to neuter its effectiveness, you can spread your infantry out so they don't all get suppressed at once. There's lots of things you can do, so instead of just pronouncing the match up imbalanced go and try things.



Too many threads with people whining for nerfs already.

Volley fire pins MGs, and you can bumrush with your rifles. No need for smoke grenades that early. 251 arrives later than the AAHT in nearly all situations. If you don't get flamethrowers with your munitions you'll need a mortar which adversely affects your field presence, and REs being so cheap means minesweepers are a no brainer. He will have most of the map capped if you rely on MGs, since he will flank any aggressive push. If you have grenadiers they die straight up to rifles. The halftrack will beat 2 222s head on, and if anybody actually manages to kill the AAHT by using the tiny blind spot against someone that isn't brain dead please, please upload the replay because I'd love to see the impossible happen. And smoke mortars.... No , really, smoke mortars?

People have been AAHT rushing in the alpha ever since it was moved to T2 and given a price drop, and really, you NEED a pak (or a very lucky teller, since you'll be able to afford about one by the time it hits). I don't see any soft counter out there.

Nope and nope, if you spend all your muni to lmgs M20 or M15 will rape you. Pios do shit vs every us unit.

T3 is useless 'cause of m36 and 57mm and you won't have enough fuel for tiger.

Stall with T1, T2 and wait for Tiger.

Just saying that everything will "rape you" isn't a good arguement. You dont even know what you are talking about anyway, unless you're playing against bad players.

Mg42 with incen can take down light vehicles effectively. Dual of them, with micro, can cover each other. Gren have panzerfausts to take down vehicles too. You'd also try to get a quick PAK.

You can't immediately spam lmgs. You gradually get them depending on how much munis you have.

You can't rely on waiting til 11 cp to a tiger without some tech (it's too slow). A panzer 4 will allow you to secure more points, stay in the game and quicken the CP progression (since teching & building gives you CP). You'll have enough fuel by 11 CP.

57mm are worse than ZIS... so it's ridiculous to say that T3 will be useless because of that.