War Spoils Drop Rate and Rare Commanders

Honestly I am sick of everyone here writing "I want to buy them, please Relic let us spend more money"!
This was by far the biggest issue of vanilla CoH2 that the commander system clearly was Pay2Win in a full priced game.
Now Relic changed this system somehow and all the rich kids come back to cry that they actually have to play to get something.
Sure the drop rate could be a little higher but you gotta be insane to wish back the old system.
Can you imagine that some people just don't want to spend 60$ for the game itself and then again more than 30$ to get a better chance of winning? What a stupid bullshit.

Honestly I am sick of everyone here writing "I want to buy them, please Relic let us spend more money"!
This was by far the biggest issue of vanilla CoH2 that the commander system clearly was Pay2Win in a full priced game.
Now Relic changed this system somehow and all the rich kids come back to cry that they actually have to play to get something.
Sure the drop rate could be a little higher but you gotta be insane to wish back the old system.
Can you imagine that some people just don't want to spend 60$ for the game itself and then again more than 30$ to get a better chance of winning? What a stupid bullshit.

I agree, it's better for them to be a random drop than purchasable. At least that way everyone gets a fair chance at getting them as long as they play the game. Drop rates can be adjusted.

Drop rate adjustment will never fix it if you can get duplicates. People are already saying how commanders they paid for are dropping for them.

We'll give it a few months and see if people still love the system when they have gotten a single commander or just the fortifications/scavenge commander.

People are STILL trotting out the "its better than the old system of pay to win". We've discussed this to death - it was only Pay 2 Win with Elite Troops/Soviet Industry, both of which have been nerfed. There was nothing wrong with the old system of unlocking commanders as you leveled up.

Drop rate adjustment will never fix it if you can get duplicates. People are already saying how commanders they paid for are dropping for them.

We'll give it a few months and see if people still love the system when they have gotten a single commander or just the fortifications/scavenge commander.

People are STILL trotting out the "its better than the old system of pay to win". We've discussed this to death - it was only Pay 2 Win with Elite Troops/Soviet Industry, both of which have been nerfed. There was nothing wrong with the old system of unlocking commanders as you leveled up.

It's highly probable that getting duplicate commanders is not intended. No need to go around putting words into peoples mouths saying how the old system of getting commanders on level up was wrong. Nobody thinks that.

However a lot of us think that P2W system was wrong. Even though the doctrines "got nerfed" it doesn't mean anything, people still could buy their way to victory at least for a time period, which is unacceptable. I'll take random drops any day over it.

I prefer low drop rates tbh - whenever I see a crate now it's so exciting because it could be that one time I get something other than a duplicate white bulletin.

The opposite approach is something like the new Diablo expansion. If you load people with loot they absolutely adore you for a week, and then when they realise everyone already has everything and there's nothing to do it doesn't seem so great any more.

Of course you could ask why arpg drop rates should even be relevant to a strategy game, but well, for better or worse, it seems that now it is.

This is my personal opinion:

Frankly, I prefer the old way: Commanders to be unlock after you reach a certain level ( Lvl 10 , 20 , 30 ,40 ,50 v.v.v. ). Bulletins and Skin can be random ( Like after every 5 level up you get to choose 3 boxes out of 10 - like the Persona game series ).

This !!!
All should be random drops exept the Commanders!!!!
+1000

i wouldnt be suprised if drops are related to your prestige lvl
maybe if youre rank 100 prestige lvl 3 you have a higher chance to get decent drops? would make sense. reward the players that invested a lot of time into the game and give the new ones a reason to play more.
anyways i refrain from any criticism regarding the system till fridays announcement

Drop rate adjustment will never fix it if you can get duplicates. People are already saying how commanders they paid for are dropping for them.

There is not just money, there is also time and effort

Beforehand if you wanted to get Bulletins that benefited, say T34s, you had to play and use T-34s. It could be a grind, but you knew what you had to do and could go about doing it and could work out roughly how long it would take.


Now this is entirely at random so you have no control at all


And worse, because the system will randomly drop things you already have, you are actually being penalised for your work under the old system

And worse, because the system will randomly drop things you already have, you are actually being penalised for your work under the old system

Not entirely.

Commanders and skins, absolutely.

But bulletin duplicates are great. Before, we couldn't even have them. Now, we can actually equip multiple instances of the same bulletin.

Whilst their bonuses are usually reasonably small, tripling up on your favorite unit could well be a thing. 3x +4% penetration on the T-34, anyone?

(Or 3x +5% armour on the M3 scout car? )

Ok, but that will only be even semi useful if you it gets capped at 3.

Otherwise you will end up with multiple copies of the same commons that you cannot possibly use

Ok, but that will only be even semi useful if you it gets capped at 3.

Otherwise you will end up with multiple copies of the same commons that you cannot possibly use

My instinct would be that CoH2 is aiming to move towards better integration with Steamworks. The modding options were a good start.

Hopefully, eventually, we'll be able to swap and trade these extra items with those that need them, larger numbers of bulletins and skins, etc. The option to buy most, only the option to get some- imagine the TF2 inventory but in CoH2.

It'll give some meaning back to those drops we don't personally need. And the continuing options to buy skins for tanks, infantry and the like may allow Relic to keep funded with the game, and that means we get more content and a longer lifespan for the game.

I'm meaning to do a full write up of my thoughts on this, but I'll wait and see what Relic is saying tomorrow before I make any big judgement.

Please, please, please don't mention TF2. I hate what that game has become. Hat Market Simulator 2014 would be a better title. It's disgusting. I can't enjoy it any more with all the zany crazy stuff that happens.

If COH2 becomes anything close to that I will cry. Next your telling me it will be free to play.

Unlocking commanders and other stuff is great idea. Previous system was boring and p2w.

It's only p2w in case the buyable stuff is better than standard stuff. Since needed nerf of SI & Elite Troops, I wouldn't call it p2w anymore.

Please, please, please don't mention TF2. I hate what that game has become. Hat Market Simulator 2014 would be a better title. It's disgusting. I can't enjoy it any more with all the zany crazy stuff that happens.

I used to be big into trading and making your unit look good but I got bored of that. So I sold all my stuff and just play. Suprise; the gameplay is still the same

It's not the same when somebody is using a weapon you don't recognise, know what it does, or understand.

It's the exact same as these unlockable commanders. You can't see them in the army customiser, so how do you know what they are or what they do without that image?

Knowledge is power. A character from a Relic game once said that. Seems knowledge is now a random luck factor.

I used to be big into trading and making your unit look good but I got bored of that. So I sold all my stuff and just play. Suprise; the gameplay is still the same

That's the thing I don't get with complaints about it.

The inventory system has allowed TF2 to run for years and years, with constant updates and new content and continuing options for those that want them- and still turn a profit.

It's made it into a healthy and long lived service, rather than a passing fad. And you know what? The gameplay is still great. It's a fun old game in any of the game modes, and there's a hell of a lot of custom ones these days.




Would it be so bad to allow it in CoH2? You don't have to take part. You can just ignore the inventory system and not by anything. Some people do want new camo patterns, some people would want greatcoats for all their infantry, and wouldn't mind shelling out a dollar for either.

And that economy would keep CoH2 able to support itself long into the future- much longer than it would otherwise. I want that.


Addendum: Commanders, admittedly, are a little more suspect. But you can get used to units you don't personally own. LoL, for example, has no issue letting players buy characters, and the ones without them have no problems fighting them in the long run.

Sure, you may be unsure first time you see them- but hey. Play a few games, look around online, see how it works out. The information is anything but hidden.

Why do I not want all this? I paid £60 for the game at release, and another £15 for WA - why the hell am I expected to pay more? This is BF4 levels of absurd amount of cash.

Relic used to be very generous with freebies - hell, we got The Last Stand, the greatest game mode ever in an RTS, FOR 100% FREE. Now you are all up for micro-economies, nickle and dimeing skins and everything inbetween? I feel like I'm being taken for a mug.

Nice to see consumerism is dead in COH2.org.

Why do I not want all this? I paid £60 for the game at release, and another £15 for WA - why the hell am I expected to pay more? This is BF4 levels of absurd amount of cash.

Relic used to be very generous with freebies - hell, we got The Last Stand, the greatest game mode ever in an RTS, FOR 100% FREE. Now you are all up for micro-economies, nickle and dimeing skins and everything inbetween? I feel like I'm being taken for a mug.

Nice to see consumerism is dead in COH2.org.

It's not about forcing you to buy things.

It's about giving us the option, if we want to, and allowing those things to contribute to the continuing costs of updates, patches and server hosting.

You can play the game with only a base purchase.
There have been map releases over time. That's free content.
You can play in Multiplayer with armies you don't own- essentially free content.
You can play on all the new Relic and community maps with just the base purchase. There are two dozen or so commanders absolutely free- plenty on release, some with registering, some given away for events.

CoH2 remains a great platform and you can play it with only the base purchase. You can play full multiplayer with only the cheaper OKW purchase, even.

Allowing more content does not devalue what you have, and the free stuff remains free stuff, and the game is the same game.


What have you LOST if people have the option to buy a slightly different variation of the units you have? What have you lost if people have different looking tank skins or coats or decals or faceplates?

The game at the core remains the same game and it's good. And it's supported, and your product retains value.

There's just more stuff for people that want it. If you don't want to play with it, don't, but why deny it to those that do?

well said Brachiaraidos

Allowing more content does not devalue what you have, and the free stuff remains free stuff, and the game is the same game.

If the system that delivers said content is detrimental to my experience and level of enjoyment, the game is not the same and it does devalue it.

Dawn of War 2 also got free maps. Your argument is flawed. I was simply using it as an example of a free improvement, something that added to the game and was highly enjoyable and extended the value of the game beyond just "more maps". Variation, flavour.

I was somewhat thinking of this article (as much as I loathe Polygon's awful journalism, I found this a very agreeable well written piece): http://www.polygon.com/2014/6/24/5837722/battlefield-hardline-ea-dice-broken
Things we used to get free, we are now expected to pay for. I can understand why - development is more expensive, content isn't free, but I feel War Spoils is a step even further towards this randomised bullshit system I see in so many games. It's a slippery slope. Relic haven't shared their plans for the system or the next 5 years. Should I be worried? is the game going to get worse? who knows.

We're getting off topic here. All I see is a dangerous trend towards free to play systems. You obviously disagree with me, so I guess we'll agree to disagree then. You obviously don't want to budge on your position.