Official Obersoldaten OP Thread

That would make sense if partisans and irregulars weren't generally cheaper than conscripts.

But he is correct. With respect to their reinforcement costs they are treated like a 360 MP unit.

I find it funny that people still complain that their infantry has a hard time hitting obersoldaten.

Again, obersoldaten hard counter infantry. If you are too stupid or to lazy to get out a m3 or utility car or a AA track or any fucking vehicle than its your own fault. Just stop crying. The same way people could cry that they lose their tanks to at guns, it's just a learn to play issue.

Okw is designed around elite units if you take them away, you take Okw out of the game. I have the impression that some people won't stop crying unit all factions have exactly the same units.

Okw is designed as an hard counter faction that is inflexible. Going quick for a unit exposes many tactical weaknesses that you can utilize to win the game.

Just get 2 bars in M3

The partisans/irregulars have very weak stats compared to conscripts and die like flies. the partisan doctrine is not popular partially due to this reason.

That would make sense if partisans and irregulars weren't generally cheaper than conscripts.

With FJ's, I effectively see them as overpriced sturmpioneers (w/ muni attacks that are hard to afford for a muni starved faction). Basically, building FJ's are a waste if they are getting called in from off-map rather than a building to reverse the tide during the heat of fighting.

i suggest putting shock troops in an M3 for additional close range damage.

The partisans/irregulars have very weak stats compared to conscripts and die like flies. the partisan doctrine is not popular partially due to this reason.

I'd say its exactly for that reason.

For a price of core unit you get a completely ineffective, squishy squad whos usefulness depends in 100% on weapon RNG, which decides if you'll get useful unit(AI partisans are all equally horrible since weapon profile changed, before that at least ppsh ones could kill stuff) or will waste mp for crippled CE squad.

lol @ all the M3 jokes. M3 should be an meme on this site.

I find it funny that people still complain that their infantry has a hard time hitting obersoldaten.

Again, obersoldaten hard counter infantry. If you are too stupid or to lazy to get out a m3 or utility car or a AA track or any fucking vehicle than its your own fault. Just stop crying. The same way people could cry that they lose their tanks to at guns, it's just a learn to play issue.

Okw is designed around elite units if you take them away, you take Okw out of the game. I have the impression that some people won't stop crying unit all factions have exactly the same units.

Okw is designed as an hard counter faction that is inflexible. Going quick for a unit exposes many tactical weaknesses that you can utilize to win the game.

The price to performance comparison between FJs and STs has been done. They should be worse than FJs since they cost less and slightly better than STs since they cost a tiny bit more. Instead they LOL melt the shit out of STs. Not to mention how wonderful and synergizing their Vet is.

To folks that say they come out late. You can have them out as your second building if you want. Also STs have no AT either. Lets just buff STs to 95% of Obersoldaten then? Range profile too? No? Well then that might be because they are overperforming for all their benefits and cost.

I love playing OKW. I think they are my new Favorite faction. But Obersoldaten are clearly overperforming.

IMO Obersoldaten are the only viable counter against the US blob of doom atm. MG34 will be ripped apart in seconds and the Flak HT will burn too. But 2-3 OS troops in green cover can hold back the huns pretty well.
US players learn to play with your tanks and vehicles. In fact they are very good. But 95% of the US player base is just blobbing because it works much better without any micro. And yet they cry when Obersoldaten (which are the main counter to inf yet without any AT) kill their troops.

IMO Obersoldaten are the only viable counter against the US blob of doom atm. MG34 will be ripped apart in seconds and the Flak HT will burn too. But 2-3 OS troops in green cover can hold back the huns pretty well.
US players learn to play with your tanks and vehicles. In fact they are very good. But 95% of the US player base is just blobbing because it works much better without any micro. And yet they cry when Obersoldaten (which are the main counter to inf yet without any AT) kill their troops.

US Blobs is another problem. It has nothing to do with Obersoldaten overperforming. Thats like saying hey I need an OP prenerf ISU to deal with all those TIGERS!

Shocks and Obersoldaten are price wise pretty well aligned to be honest
-- 0 -- 5 -- 10 -- 15 -- 20 -- 25 -- 30 -- 35
71.09 71.09 28.90 04.33 02.69 01.45 00.59 00.59
33.65 32.87 32.14 31.43 30.71 29.96 28.98 27.99

The difference is, that Obersoldaten have a good dmg output at all ranges, but are only a 4 men squad and their LMG (which is ~60% of their DPS) can drop. I think Shocks need to get a bit too close and their damage drops off to much. I'd remove the armor of Obersoldaten and their 1.25 accuracy against retreating squads. If that turns out to be insufficient I'd go for .05 less accuracy on all ranges. If they still feel bad at that point, I'd go for making them weaker, but also cheaper as I am not a fan of such elite troops. Once again, Obersoldaten might be slightly overperforming, but not by far. It's mostly their long range damage profile that really makes them feel so strong. If Shocks get a flank on them they kill them hard.

Since JHeartless mentioned it:
Obersoldaten should not be in between Shocks and Fallschirms.
Fallschirms are 380 MP
Shocks are 390 MP
Obers are 400 MP

Shocks and Obersoldaten are price wise pretty well aligned to be honest
-- 0 -- 5 -- 10 -- 15 -- 20 -- 25 -- 30 -- 35
71.09 71.09 28.90 04.33 02.69 01.45 00.59 00.59
33.65 32.87 32.14 31.43 30.71 29.96 28.98 27.99

The difference is, that Obersoldaten have a good dmg output at all ranges, but are only a 4 men squad and their LMG (which is ~60% of their DPS) can drop. I think Shocks need to get a bit too close and their damage drops off to much. I'd remove the armor of Obersoldaten and their 1.25 accuracy against retreating squads. If that turns out to be insufficient I'd go for .05 less accuracy on all ranges. If they still feel bad at that point, I'd go for making them weaker, but also cheaper as I am not a fan of such elite troops. Once again, Obersoldaten might be slightly overperforming, but not by far. It's mostly their long range damage profile that really makes them feel so strong. If Shocks get a flank on them they kill them hard.

Since JHeartless mentioned it:
Obersoldaten should not be in between Shocks and Fallschirms.
Fallschirms are 380 MP
Shocks are 390 MP
Obers are 400 MP

wow that shock close range dps is brutal

Shocks and Obersoldaten are price wise pretty well aligned to be honest
-- 0 -- 5 -- 10 -- 15 -- 20 -- 25 -- 30 -- 35
71.09 71.09 28.90 04.33 02.69 01.45 00.59 00.59
33.65 32.87 32.14 31.43 30.71 29.96 28.98 27.99

The difference is, that Obersoldaten have a good dmg output at all ranges, but are only a 4 men squad and their LMG (which is ~60% of their DPS) can drop. I think Shocks need to get a bit too close and their damage drops off to much. I'd remove the armor of Obersoldaten and their 1.25 accuracy against retreating squads. If that turns out to be insufficient I'd go for .05 less accuracy on all ranges. If they still feel bad at that point, I'd go for making them weaker, but also cheaper as I am not a fan of such elite troops. Once again, Obersoldaten might be slightly overperforming, but not by far. It's mostly their long range damage profile that really makes them feel so strong. If Shocks get a flank on them they kill them hard.

Since JHeartless mentioned it:
Obersoldaten should not be in between Shocks and Fallschirms.
Fallschirms are 380 MP
Shocks are 390 MP
Obers are 400 MP

Milka,

Now add the STG44 (which really is my biggest gripe)

I'm quite sure fallschirms are 440mp.

I'm quite sure fallschirms are 440mp.

Probably because they are

Probably because they are

Jawohl, i can bestätigen that!

Fallschirms are 380 manpower. They get called in for 440 manpower, but their actual value is 380. If you reinforce them it says "47.5" right? Reinforce is usually half the entities value.

-- 0 -- 5 -- 10 -- 15 -- 20 -- 25 -- 30 -- 35
71.09 71.09 28.90 04.33 02.69 01.45 00.59 00.59 Shocks
33.65 32.87 32.14 31.43 30.71 29.96 28.98 27.99 LMG34 Obers
64.24 62.99 54.23 36.92 29.44 24.20 19.04 14.34 StG44 Obers
59.22 59.22 49.86 30.44 22.07 15.98 10.23 04.83 PGrens
42.11 42.11 38.36 30.47 26.55 23.61 20.92 18.46 Fallschirmjäger

Keep in mind that the StG44 for the last one are better against cover (they do NOT ignore cover, but do not have so much reduced dmg vs it) and have better moving modifiers than the LMG34. Also added PGrens since a lot of people say they have such a low damage. At 14 range they actually deal more dmg than Obersoldaten and as you can see they almost deal as much damage as StG44 upgraded Obers.

Content to come.

And here is the content:

If you manage to make Obersoldaten in 1v1 or 2v2, you deserve to be able to kill a few rifles.

+1 to what the OP of this thread said. Even he realizes that it takes a long time to get Obersoldaten out even if your goal is to get them from the beginning of the game. And after that investment you have a high priced unit which has no AT and costs a tremendous amount to reinforce and a lot of time to boot.

Relic has done surprisingly well with balancing OKW and the U.S. It's the Soviet and Ostheer factions that are messed up.

^Adding to that, Obers having only two STGs make them drop models much more efficiently as DPS is focused on 2 guns instead of 4-6, allowing for much better model focus fire(or just in general allowing for vastly superior DPS against single models over distances and up close).

Fallschirms are 380 manpower. They get called in for 440 manpower, but their actual value is 380. If you reinforce them it says "47.5" right? Reinforce is usually half the entities value.

-- 0 -- 5 -- 10 -- 15 -- 20 -- 25 -- 30 -- 35
71.09 71.09 28.90 04.33 02.69 01.45 00.59 00.59 Shocks
33.65 32.87 32.14 31.43 30.71 29.96 28.98 27.99 LMG34 Obers
64.24 62.99 54.23 36.92 29.44 24.20 19.04 14.34 StG44 Obers
59.22 59.22 49.86 30.44 22.07 15.98 10.23 04.83 PGrens

Keep in mind that the StG44 for the last one are better against cover (they do NOT ignore cover, but do not have so much reduced dmg vs it) and have better moving modifiers than the LMG34. Also added PGrens since a lot of people say they have such a low damage. At 14 range they actually deal more dmg than Obersoldaten and as you can see they almost deal as much damage as StG44 upgraded Obers.

Glad you added Pgrens because its curious that Obers get armor and reduced accuracy modifiers and Pgrens do not. Which makes Obers more tanky to add to their highest over all damage all all ranges other than point blank.

Would it be possible to figure out the surviability of STs vs Obers? As in which takes longer to kill per model? And per Squad?

Because I am quite sure that marginal DPS benefit the STs get at Point blank doesnt equal out to all the Obers defensive buffs. Speaking of course about the STG44 upgraded Obers.