Official Obersoldaten OP Thread
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11 Jul 2014, 07:14 AM
#241
1 
Posts: 247 | Subs: 2
I still do not understand why they are not called "Ubersoldaten"... seriously...
11 Jul 2014, 08:13 AM
#242
5 
Posts: 1157 | Subs: 2
Bahaha 13,000 views of this thread, good lord.
11 Jul 2014, 08:35 AM
#243
Posts: 4928
Funny isn't it? The only thing broken about them is they can drop the super MG 34. That's like if the Captain could drop his super Thompson (which has almost the DPS of a full riflesquad at close range).
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> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
11 Jul 2014, 21:03 PM
#244
Posts: 13
As a top 20 player with all factions in 3v3 and 4v4 i can say yes, Obersoldaten are definatly OP.
Just had a game were 3 vet 3 rifleman equipped with double BAR's got shredded by 1 STG upgraded obersoldaten squad. I though i was in luck as obersoldaten squad came around corner and i could focus fire it down quickly but even with grenades (first throw of mine got countered by a inf support gun wich 1 shotted a full health sqaud!!!) by the time i could throw the second grenade 2 of my squads had allready dropped like flies, and the last squad died on retreat after throwing the nade. All of the obers where in range of the nade yet none of them died, so he could just heal up again.
This is just insane, combined with a couple of volks there is simply no counter.
Also i play okw myself and have yet to find a reason for the pupchen as the inf support gun can take out a sherman with the vet 1 ability. (provided sherman is not moving, but shows the insane power of the inf support gun, also it can full health kill maxim in 1 shot.)
Just had a game were 3 vet 3 rifleman equipped with double BAR's got shredded by 1 STG upgraded obersoldaten squad. I though i was in luck as obersoldaten squad came around corner and i could focus fire it down quickly but even with grenades (first throw of mine got countered by a inf support gun wich 1 shotted a full health sqaud!!!) by the time i could throw the second grenade 2 of my squads had allready dropped like flies, and the last squad died on retreat after throwing the nade. All of the obers where in range of the nade yet none of them died, so he could just heal up again.
This is just insane, combined with a couple of volks there is simply no counter.
Also i play okw myself and have yet to find a reason for the pupchen as the inf support gun can take out a sherman with the vet 1 ability. (provided sherman is not moving, but shows the insane power of the inf support gun, also it can full health kill maxim in 1 shot.)
11 Jul 2014, 21:58 PM
#245
1 Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4
As a top 20 player with all factions in 3v3 and 4v4 i can say yes, Obersoldaten are definatly OP.
Just had a game were 3 vet 3 rifleman equipped with double BAR's got shredded by 1 STG upgraded obersoldaten squad. I though i was in luck as obersoldaten squad came around corner and i could focus fire it down quickly but even with grenades (first throw of mine got countered by a inf support gun wich 1 shotted a full health sqaud!!!) by the time i could throw the second grenade 2 of my squads had allready dropped like flies, and the last squad died on retreat after throwing the nade. All of the obers where in range of the nade yet none of them died, so he could just heal up again.
This is just insane, combined with a couple of volks there is simply no counter.
Also i play okw myself and have yet to find a reason for the pupchen as the inf support gun can take out a sherman with the vet 1 ability. (provided sherman is not moving, but shows the insane power of the inf support gun, also it can full health kill maxim in 1 shot.)
Do you happen to still have the replay? I would like to observe this in more detail.
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11 Jul 2014, 22:43 PM
#246
Posts: 665
Yeah, me too. Unless the Osts were vet 5 in green cover, I have a very hard time seeing them eat the DPS of 6 vetted BARs and a grenade. They're powerful but they still drop like any other infantry.
Eh, I actually found that flamers, if they can get close, put a very nice dent on their health bars. Sure, it's a very niche use, but something to consider. Perhaps vetted Rifles with flamers would be more effective against them. God I want the Rifle Company commander.
Eh, I actually found that flamers, if they can get close, put a very nice dent on their health bars. Sure, it's a very niche use, but something to consider. Perhaps vetted Rifles with flamers would be more effective against them. God I want the Rifle Company commander.
11 Jul 2014, 23:05 PM
#247
Posts: 1637
133 HPs per model doesnt drop like other infantry. Especially in Green cover. I have done similar things with Obers but I did lose models. I calculated one engagment against a Soviet player where I lost three models after inflicting 860MP damage to him.
They are silly on the power scale. I think they are fine with the LMG but the cover ignoring STG is just LOLWTF?
But then again OKW is hurting on resources so i guess its supposed to be this way.
They are silly on the power scale. I think they are fine with the LMG but the cover ignoring STG is just LOLWTF?
But then again OKW is hurting on resources so i guess its supposed to be this way.
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
11 Jul 2014, 23:08 PM
#248
Posts: 627
133 HPs per model doesnt drop like other infantry. Especially in Green cover. I have done similar things with Obers but I did lose models. I calculated one engagment against a Soviet player where I lost three models after inflicting 860MP damage to him.
They are silly on the power scale. I think they are fine with the LMG but the cover ignoring STG is just LOLWTF?
But then again OKW is hurting on resources so i guess its supposed to be this way.
OKW has normal manpower income.
Obers only cost manpower.
11 Jul 2014, 23:11 PM
#249
Posts: 665
133 HPs per model doesnt drop like other infantry. Especially in Green cover. I have done similar things with Obers but I did lose models. I calculated one engagment against a Soviet player where I lost three models after inflicting 860MP damage to him.
They are silly on the power scale. I think they are fine with the LMG but the cover ignoring STG is just LOLWTF?
But then again OKW is hurting on resources so i guess its supposed to be this way.
With cover being equal, I found that double-BARs rifles with vet 3 beat vet 0-1 Obers and are a match until vet 3, at which point they seem to start losing. Three vet 3 rifles with double BARs is an ungoldy amount of DPS, and unless they were standing out in the open while the Obers were in solid green cover, I see no way they can lose this fight.
Now, my testing is not scientific, but I've face Obers quite a few times. And vetted double BARs rifles do a lot of damage to them, as they should.
But yes, the cover-ignoring on the STG44s needs to go away, as does the bonus against retreating units. There is no need to have Obers break fundamental standards of CoH infantry play. If you want infantry that squad-wipes on retreat, grab more Sturmpioneers.
11 Jul 2014, 23:15 PM
#250
Posts: 1637
OKW has normal manpower income.
Obers only cost manpower.
90 Muni Cover ignoring STGs. 33% less Muni. Vanilla arent Greek Gods like the STG upgraded are.
Edit: And to make sure Milkacow doesnt pop in here and beat me with the Stats stick it isnt really cover ignoring Per Se....
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
11 Jul 2014, 23:48 PM
#251
Posts: 627
90 Muni Cover ignoring STGs. 33% less Muni. Vanilla arent Greek Gods like the STG upgraded are.
Edit: And to make sure Milkacow doesnt pop in here and beat me with the Stats stick it isnt really cover ignoring Per Se....
Obers with an Mg34 are by no means less threatening. They just work better at long range
12 Jul 2014, 00:02 AM
#252
Posts: 4928
OKW has normal manpower income.
Obers only cost manpower.
OKW has gimped fuel and munitions income, they rely extremely heavily on manpower units, like the Obersoldaten.
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> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
12 Jul 2014, 00:26 AM
#253
Posts: 1384
OKW has normal manpower income.
Obers only cost manpower.
They come out in t4, unlike every other infantry unit in the game which comes out much earlier.
They cost 400 mp, which is more than shock troops and every other infantry unit in the game.
They come out at a stage in the game wherein vehicles that they cannot even hurt are on the field and likely vetted.
They're a three man squad, vulnerable to snipers or indirect fire that happens to gib a model.
Obers are only "OP" if you literally are just throwing your infantry at them. They're meant to be the top tier infantry, because they're coming out in the stage of the game where you have veteran infantry with weapon upgrades supported by vehicles and artillery.
12 Jul 2014, 00:32 AM
#254
Posts: 1637
Obers are 4 man squads.
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
12 Jul 2014, 00:41 AM
#255
Posts: 627
They come out in t4, unlike every other infantry unit in the game which comes out much earlier.
They cost 400 mp, which is more than shock troops and every other infantry unit in the game.
They come out at a stage in the game wherein vehicles that they cannot even hurt are on the field and likely vetted.
They're a three man squad, vulnerable to snipers or indirect fire that happens to gib a model.
A) T4 can be built second by OKW, for a grand total investment of 120 fuel. 180 fuel isn't enough for the Soviets to get a tank, and it's not even enough for the USF to get anything heavier than a Stuart.
B) Fallschirms cost more, Jager light are more to reinforce (Puzzlingly)
C) As for stage in the game, see A, I personally love to get Obers as early infantry to mop up die americane.
D) USF do not have snipers or mortars and the pack is a joke and, unlike weapons teams, mobile units are pretty able to just walk around to avoid all barrage fire forever
So yeah. At 120 fuel, I can throw Obers around, and all my opponent has to throw at me is infantry, and they are most certainly OP. Even when tanks ARE around, throwing obers around as a capping squad demands your opponent invest fuel just to counter your manpower, which draws their tanks out and leaves them vulnerable to pushes.
12 Jul 2014, 00:42 AM
#256
Posts: 1637
B) Fallschirms cost more, Jager light are more to reinforce (Puzzlingly)
This....
This....
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
12 Jul 2014, 00:45 AM
#257
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
Obers can come out surprisingly fast if you go directly for them. OKW only needs to gather 80 fuel for the T4 building. You can realistically get them out before a rushed soviet M5 can even hit the field.
12 Jul 2014, 01:46 AM
#258
Posts: 1384
D) USF do not have snipers
Don't pathfinders have sniper rifle-like functionality? Or is that my imagination?
B) Fallschirms cost more, Jager light are more to reinforce (Puzzlingly)
This....
They cost more because they can be spawned anywhere there's a building even in the fog of war, and require no teching. As for the math for reinforcement: take squad cost, divide by the models in the squad. Then divide that in half.
Obers can come out surprisingly fast if you go directly for them. OKW only needs to gather 80 fuel for the T4 building. You can realistically get them out before a rushed soviet M5 can even hit the field.
Reduced fuel income, presumably they're going t2 because they're not going t3 to just not spend any fuel and rush obers. That means all they have to throw at you is T0 and maybe an infantry support gun.
A t0 heavy build has a lot of manpower investment, which makes obers difficult to afford if you're doing half-competent and bleeding models. It's not unviable, but obers really aren't a be all end all option. If the American goes t4 you're going to have a really hard time dealing with an m8a1 since you decided you didn't need puma's.
12 Jul 2014, 02:01 AM
#259
Posts: 627
Don't pathfinders have sniper rifle-like functionality? Or is that my imagination?
That is your imagination. They have a crit chance against models below 40% health and do jack all on their own.
They cost more because they can be spawned anywhere there's a building even in the fog of war, and require no teching. As for the math for reinforcement: take squad cost, divide by the models in the squad. Then divide that in half.
Oh? Gosh, I never thought of that, surely that makes perfect sense and I'm an idiot.
No, wait, it's a 4 man squad that costs 290mp and reinforces for 55mp each.
Reduced fuel income, presumably they're going t2 because they're not going t3 to just not spend any fuel and rush obers. That means all they have to throw at you is T0 and maybe an infantry support gun.
T1/4 is fine, the fuel income rate is plenty to have obers early. No point getting an all-fuel unit building when you want so save fuel for a while, is there?
12 Jul 2014, 02:06 AM
#260
Posts: 1384
No, wait, it's a 4 man squad that costs 290mp and reinforces for 55mp each.
Fall's cost 440 mp, divided by two is 220. Divided by 4 is?
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