Hi all,
I'd like to post about something I've noticed with the elbe day patch.
It's much more difficult to deal with a well supported (read-surrounded by zis guns, maxims, guards, with mines etc) as now german armor is less lethal (thanks to soviet armor buffs, a good change), less durable, the nerf to blitz (not complaining about it, its a good change) and the increase to ISU armor. This gets especially exacerbated on choky maps e.g. semosky. The panzerwerfer cannot kill the surrounding support units in a suitable time, and any mp attrition is offset by the mp attrition the ISU itself is doing to you. My question is, how do I deal with such a situation using only the core (non-doctrinal) units.
TLDR: How can I deal with a well supported ISU 152 using only the core units? Particularly on open maps with long sight lines?
Difficult to flank a well supported ISU 152
5 Jun 2014, 20:01 PM
#1
Posts: 509
5 Jun 2014, 20:21 PM
#2
Posts: 262
A good flank is nice, short of that, a good smoke barrage or two, an ostwind and two p4s rushing is pretty effective.
try to get the p4s behind the isu, let the ostwind take out the mg(s) FIRST, then bring the gren/prgren swarm to clean up the at guns.
try to get the p4s behind the isu, let the ostwind take out the mg(s) FIRST, then bring the gren/prgren swarm to clean up the at guns.
5 Jun 2014, 20:39 PM
#3
Posts: 1701
Elefant or GG.
Blaue Division - The best corp
BPX - Black Phoenix, Clan leader.
BPX - Black Phoenix, Clan leader.
5 Jun 2014, 21:37 PM
#4
Posts: 249
Elefant or GG.
In team games it pretty much comes down to this unfortunately. I'm sick and tired of trying to counter this unit with anything else
5 Jun 2014, 21:56 PM
#5
4 
Posts: 369
In team games, Elefant. In 1v1, you should have 2-3 PIVs already, and the ISU-152 shouldn't be as big a deal (although still a slight pain in the ass).
7 Jun 2014, 23:13 PM
#6
Posts: 503
Permanently BannedA good flank is nice, short of that, a good smoke barrage or two, an ostwind and two p4s rushing is pretty effective.
try to get the p4s behind the isu, let the ostwind take out the mg(s) FIRST, then bring the gren/prgren swarm to clean up the at guns.
In this time the sov reinforce...
In real talk: need 2 tiger or 1 ele and more luck with infantry kills.
You know, 1 RNG or alien mine stop a tank easy...
Or the ISU152 and the entry sov army will still stopped in time to you P4 do 10 shots (10 directly on engine) to kill...
8 Jun 2014, 15:59 PM
#7
Posts: 509
Thanks all for your replies. The problem isn't 1v1, its a headache in team games
8 Jun 2014, 16:31 PM
#8
3 
Posts: 368
Thanks all for your replies. The problem isn't 1v1, its a headache in team games
Yeah - if take a look around in this forum, you'll find that everyone agrees with you. Also; mines, M3 and Elephants, along with abilities vs. fixed positions (though an inferior problem compared to ISU/Ele/M3).
/Uninstalled
8 Jun 2014, 16:42 PM
#9
9 
Posts: 1094 | Subs: 20
Elefant or GG.
Pretty much agreed with this. I experienced the same in the CEVO 1v1 cup. A well supported ISU nearly impossible to beat without a tiger.
8 Jun 2014, 16:43 PM
#10
9 Posts: 1094 | Subs: 20
Thanks all for your replies. The problem isn't 1v1, its a headache in team games
I think it's a big problem in 1v1 aswell
8 Jun 2014, 16:47 PM
#11
Posts: 43
The ISU is broken, if well supported is like a god unit, can count everything
8 Jun 2014, 16:52 PM
#12
Posts: 1571
Use Tiger tanks.
8 Jun 2014, 17:16 PM
#13
Posts: 1702
yes, the ISU-152 is definately overperforming and hopefully everyone knows that now.
I would be very surprised if it didint receive some changes on western front armies launch.
I would be very surprised if it didint receive some changes on western front armies launch.
8 Jun 2014, 17:51 PM
#14
Posts: 1637
Buff Arty to where it needs to be and the problem goes away. In the old Meta when Ost used the Elephant my teammate would go with T34/85s and I would build a Pair of Kats and just kill all the support. Punish the camper/blobber as it were.
Now that all arty including Howitzers suck your screwed. I am sure if they fix this other changes wouldnt need to be implemented. As an unsupported Super Heavy is a dead Super Heavy.
Now that all arty including Howitzers suck your screwed. I am sure if they fix this other changes wouldnt need to be implemented. As an unsupported Super Heavy is a dead Super Heavy.
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
8 Jun 2014, 18:06 PM
#15
3 Posts: 368
Buff Arty
As long as the game is filled with one-click abilities that will utterly take out any 600MP stationary unit, I don't think this is the most viable approach.
Certainly not vs the ISU, which will randomly wipe full-health squads from the map.
More than that, many people feel that the super-range and super-sight leaves us with poor gameplay. These units just need to be changed.
/Uninstalled
8 Jun 2014, 18:57 PM
#16
Posts: 1637
As long as the game is filled with one-click abilities that will utterly take out any 600MP stationary unit, I don't think this is the most viable approach.
Certainly not vs the ISU, which will randomly wipe full-health squads from the map.
More than that, many people feel that the super-range and super-sight leaves us with poor gameplay. These units just need to be changed.
Blobbing is being rewarded. I think buffing arty is more than make it hit what it shoots. Make it take units to counter or multiple strikes. Its the darling unit of some doctrines after all. It should behave that way. If you give up a call in to have arty on your line up it should be viable.
The ele problem i talked about was easily countered this way before the nerf with either the Kats or ML20. I never had a problem and ele hasnt gotten a meaningful buff since then. The problem now is you have no way to counter the blob.
Same goes for Soviets. The problem with the ISU is that it can sit around its support teams in a static defense just sitting there and there is nothing that Ost can do about it. Before hand if you did this a werfer would rape your T2 spam.
I firmly believe that if Arty both doctrinal and non doctrinal was effective against I dunno static targets then these problems would largely go away.
Both the Ele and the ISU could remain as powerful for cost (since its justified) and could be countered.
Remember the Werfer has good Penetration too. So it can actually damage an ISU at range if it could actually hit it....
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
8 Jun 2014, 20:18 PM
#17
Posts: 69
Permanently Banned
ISU could remain as powerful for cost (since its justified) and could be countered.
Remember the Werfer has good Penetration too. So it can actually damage an ISU at range if it could actually hit it....
Only a fanboy like you can justify the isu currently .... and you know what proves your soviet loving fanboism without doubt ?
Proclaiming that PANZERWERFER (LOL WUT) can kill isu .... yup you definitely played germans to know what you talk about
8 Jun 2014, 20:55 PM
#18
4 
Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2
Thanks all for your replies. The problem isn't 1v1, its a headache in team games
although in team games, at least one german player goes elephant by default, like at least one sov player goes for isu by default.
in 2v2+, i feel winning tank battles before the isu/ele come out WITHOUT LOSING your own tanks is very crucial.
i know its quiet obvious but what usually happen (in successful games where it is really tight) for my team and me is we just keep massing tanks on top of tanks while the enemy team kept bleeding their own tanks. then when we reach critical mass, probably about 10 - 20 min after we said "f*ck they got isu/ele" (there seems like at least 2 isu/elein tight 2v2+ and 3 isu/ele in tight 3v3+) and we go for a big flank(at least knowing where enemy ele/isu are) in force while isu/ele get in ready to snipe from the front with paks and infantries to secure our own sniping tanks from flanks and counter attacks.
what happens next is that enemies' tanks aren't in position, isu/ele turn around, and f-ed up pathing goes in to full effect. this means that either flanking tanks or sniping tanks are shooting at the ass of enemies' sniping tanks. and then you move up your ele/isu and support the flanking tanks.
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9 Jun 2014, 02:52 AM
#19
Posts: 126
Hmmm keeping the initiative and dictating the play while denying the enemy mp to call their super heavy late game unit. That actually sounds like real strategy. You are in the wrong forums my friend. People don't like to hear that sort of thing around here.....
How much damage will a Stuka strike or pack43 do to an 152? Does the 152 out range the pack 43? Just wondering because nobody has listed these as counters?
How much damage will a Stuka strike or pack43 do to an 152? Does the 152 out range the pack 43? Just wondering because nobody has listed these as counters?
9 Jun 2014, 03:08 AM
#20
Posts: 2779
Elefant or GG. QFT
Tiger or even Ace is not effective enough against this broken unit, I stopped playing any teamgame after someone ISU side armour bounce off my Ace shot in one tank length range, because every single fucking game, is ISU vs Elefant.
Tiger or even Ace is not effective enough against this broken unit, I stopped playing any teamgame after someone ISU side armour bounce off my Ace shot in one tank length range, because every single fucking game, is ISU vs Elefant.
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