ZIS barrage is quite ridiculous actually. It serves an anti-tank and anti-infantry role while coming equipped with an ability to counter squads that should counter the ZIS.
If the ability came at vet 1 it would be much better.
Does the Zis really need barrage?
3 Jun 2014, 17:17 PM
#21
Posts: 148
3 Jun 2014, 17:19 PM
#22
Posts: 2053
The fact that people are complaining that an AT gun has too much AI is also ridiculous. Their barrages are so easy to predict, and such a waste of muni...
3 Jun 2014, 17:22 PM
#23
Posts: 1702
ZIS barrage is quite ridiculous actually. It serves an anti-tank and anti-infantry role while coming equipped with an ability to counter squads that should counter the ZIS.
If the ability came at vet 1 it would be much better.
You know what is also ridiciluos? Pak fires 50% faster, and has target weakpoint. If it didint exist it would be so much better. Infact , remove at guns from the game.
3 Jun 2014, 17:22 PM
#24
Posts: 43
Barrage is a timed ability, meaning, you have time to notice the barrage being fired at you and for the next 15 seconds or so, you can walk any armored vehicle right up to it before it has switched back to AT. Let alone any infantry you have around that charges at it will most likely break animation and the AT gun backs off.
I don't see a balance issue with it. German AT is far superior and honestly to me, if your opponent can creep a ZiS onto the front lines and barrage your units without you harrassing and/or killing it, it sounds like you have the problem, not us.
The barrage range is shorter I believe then it's actually AP rounds range. Not sure how it's that uneven at all.
tl;dr l2flank.
I don't see a balance issue with it. German AT is far superior and honestly to me, if your opponent can creep a ZiS onto the front lines and barrage your units without you harrassing and/or killing it, it sounds like you have the problem, not us.
The barrage range is shorter I believe then it's actually AP rounds range. Not sure how it's that uneven at all.
tl;dr l2flank.
I spit that rock cocaine flow they go ayo for that yayo
3 Jun 2014, 17:25 PM
#25
Posts: 896
But why is the current balance wrong? Like i said, 2 riflegrenades cost the same, you will always have 2 grens around, and they work better in the sense that is is instant, while if ZIS-3 miss the first shot, you can just easily reposition.
The t-34/76 is still good vs infantry, P IV vs tanks. T-34/76 loses to P IV practically every single engagement still. And thats good.
Like i'm not sure why it should be removed if rifle grenades stay in the game. Oorah + molotov can also do practically the same for even cheaper... Not the same, but almost...
It's situational, but often your grens cant get to it because they get suppressed by a maxim for example, while the zis barrages support weapons and fights off scout cars and tanks. So the barrage is giving it a one unit army role.
As for the abilities you list above, they all should have a specific purpose otherwise they would introduces problems in game play.
You know what is also ridiciluos? Pak fires 50% faster, and has target weakpoint. If it didint exist it would be so much better. Infact , remove at guns from the game.
That's the wrong way to look at things, one thing is bad doesn't make another bad thing good.
3 Jun 2014, 17:26 PM
#26
Posts: 896
Barrage is a timed ability, meaning, you have time to notice the barrage being fired at you and for the next 15 seconds or so, you can walk any armored vehicle right up to it before it has switched back to AT. Let alone any infantry you have around that charges at it will most likely break animation and the AT gun backs off.
I don't see a balance issue with it. German AT is far superior and honestly to me, if your opponent can creep a ZiS onto the front lines and barrage your units without you harrassing and/or killing it, it sounds like you have the problem, not us.
The barrage range is shorter I believe then it's actually AP rounds range. Not sure how it's that uneven at all.
tl;dr l2flank.
no an no, in fact often you find barrage being fired at you from fog of war
3 Jun 2014, 17:27 PM
#27
Posts: 2053
It's situational, but often your grens cant get to it because they get suppressed by a maxim for example, while the zis barrages support weapons and fights off scout cars and tanks. So the barrage is giving it a one unit army role.
As for the abilities you list above, they all should have a specific purpose otherwise they would introduces problems in game play.
Then you lost because the enemy used more manpower and munitions than you, and he hardcountered you. Nothing to see here, folks. Grens arent rambo troopers.
3 Jun 2014, 17:27 PM
#28
Posts: 1702
It's situational, but often your grens cant get to it because they get suppressed by a maxim for example, while the zis barrages support weapons and fights off scout cars and tanks. So the barrage is giving it a one unit army role.
As for the abilities you list above, they all should have a specific purpose otherwise they would introduces problems in game play.
It's very very rare that your grens will not be able to get a riflegrenade off before getting pinned by a maxim. Very very rare. But in your logic, the grenadier squad is also a one man army. It can faust, it can riflegrenade, and it can also fight infantry. And with that logic, the gaurd squad breaks the game , it can fight infantry very well with DP, it can fight light armour and can even button medium/ heavy armor! Pgrens are just completely bullshit. Anti infantry and anti armor? WTF IS THIS SHIT
Versatile units don't break the game. It's something that the soviets have since they have a limited tier structure.
3 Jun 2014, 17:28 PM
#29
Posts: 783 | Subs: 3
Abdul, lots of units can do more than one thing. It's not a bad thing. 60 munitions is not cheap considering how easy to dodge the barrage is. The Zis makes up for its mediocre anti tank with some optional anti inf, seems fair to me.
That idiot thought he won. In fact, he was wrong. Completely mistaken.No M3 he what things are not，just one moron.
The German oil scarcity, rare tanks cannot fight the Allied torrent. Kill the house to kill the German oil.
Every time lose may feel bad. Probably not the word lose your subconscious. Maybe I win you Not for the first time Maybe you you should go to recall,
The German oil scarcity, rare tanks cannot fight the Allied torrent. Kill the house to kill the German oil.
Every time lose may feel bad. Probably not the word lose your subconscious. Maybe I win you Not for the first time Maybe you you should go to recall,
3 Jun 2014, 17:33 PM
#30
Posts: 84
yes
3 Jun 2014, 17:44 PM
#31
Posts: 231
ZiS trades mid game performance with it's barrage for late game viability with reduced RoF and Target Weakpoint. It's asymmetric balance. Same reason that Grens have a non-doctrinal weapons upgrade and Cons don't.
3 Jun 2014, 17:47 PM
#32
10 Posts: 155
Let the ZIS be. The Barrage function is alright.
3 Jun 2014, 17:47 PM
#33
Posts: 747
Abdul, lots of units can do more than one thing. It's not a bad thing. 60 munitions is not cheap considering how easy to dodge the barrage is. The Zis makes up for its mediocre anti tank with some optional anti inf, seems fair to me.
+1
Maybe they should even consider to lower the price for barrage, since you rarely get off more than 2 shots before you have to reposition/retreat
3 Jun 2014, 18:48 PM
#34
Posts: 2819
It does, cause as AT, it's not as good as the Pack.
Though in my humble opinion, I think AT's should be as good ad both sides.
I like other units at both sides, but core units should be somewhat the same. IN MY OPINION DON'T JUMP ON IT LIKE A KATITOF OR SSHEINI
Though in my humble opinion, I think AT's should be as good ad both sides.
I like other units at both sides, but core units should be somewhat the same. IN MY OPINION DON'T JUMP ON IT LIKE A KATITOF OR SSHEINI
All posts made are about situations in 2v2's. Not a 1v1 player.
3 Jun 2014, 18:54 PM
#35
Posts: 1571
How about a pop cap price cut? I always felt that the AT guns took too much pop cap
3 Jun 2014, 18:55 PM
#36
4 
Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2
love how you repeat saying bad game design, bad mechanic, bad game design, bad mechanic like it's agreed upon by everybody. zis barrage seems ok to me and doesnt feel like a bad mechanic. and referring zis as one unit army is too much of a hyperbole.
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3 Jun 2014, 19:03 PM
#37
Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2
No, it doesn't. It really needs mark target.
RAWR
RAWR
The views and opinions expressed in my posts and topics are solely those of the Napalm. These views and opinions do not necessarily represent those of Relic, the developers, The Angry Bears and/or any/all contributors to this site.
3 Jun 2014, 19:05 PM
#38
Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2
It's too late now
ZIS spam will be the new meta
(Sarcasm)
ZIS spam will be the new meta
(Sarcasm)
Resident Soviet Whiner and Grand Master Bias Jedi; General Secretary of the Soviet Whine Hydra Collective; Axis Hating Sheeple; Allied Butt Buddy! Collect Them All!
Also the African Branch of TAB Bulletins
PS: The Italian Army fought with courage and skill
Also the African Branch of TAB Bulletins
PS: The Italian Army fought with courage and skill
3 Jun 2014, 19:14 PM
#39
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
ZIS3 gun is a one man army. It can deal with everything on its own with his AP and HE rounds. All it needs is some support from some maxims to deal with flanking infantry, some guards or mines to disable tanks so they don't move out of the cone, some conscripts or an M3 for reinforcement, and a T34 or something to deal with the infantry that are not killed by the extremely hard to dodge non-tracking barrage.
3 Jun 2014, 19:26 PM
#40
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
It's too late now
ZIS spam will be the new meta
(Sarcasm)
Well, we already had "ZiS OP QQ" threads in the past, because some people don't know how to mortar.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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