5 men German squads

I said this in other topic but I really think we should discuss this.

With all recent one shoot wipes potential I really do think is about time 5th man was introduced to German squads. DPS should be changed accordingly of course and everything that goes with it to make the game balanced. I am pretty sure there would be no problem with coming up with some neat formula to calculate everything.

5 men squad would solve problems with Soviet snipers (it would require for a double sniper combo to take 2 shoots before German squad would be threaten with wipe out potential, which would greatly improve 2v2 balance, leaving 1v1 intact), Soviet mines would be less lethal while retaining decent AT capabilities, All Soviet tanks would be still lethal to infantry but again one shoot squad wipe potential would be reduced. KV-8 would take this extra second to kill everyone, etc.

I really can't see the reason while it can't be done especially that in CoH German army got 5 men squads in general with latest entity coming after an upgrade if I'm not mistaken. This extra entity would increase the chance for German squad to escape to safety. Thanks to the proper tweaks to DPS profiles Infantry combat wouldn't change at all.

+1 Its always painful to see german infantry dying so fast.

The problem never was the 4 men squads. How often were 4 men grenadiers wiped out in vCoH?

The problem is the poor design of the Soviet faction.

The problem is that Soviet mines does 100 percent damage all around it's blast radius. It doesn't matter if the German squads have more men which would only decrease the amount of squad wipes. The Soviet mine will kill any infantry that touches it and that itself is a big problem.

The problem is the Soviet sniper having 2 men, have sprint and that infantry hop around when being shot at by a sniper.

The problem is Soviet heavy tanks has too large splash damage. When Heavy tanks inflict a lot of damage the splash damage around it decreases depending how far the unit is away from the impact, I the damage around it should decrease more sharply.

Bad AI, for some reason Relic programmed squads so that if any squad member falls behind a little the rest of the squad should wait until that squad member reaches the squad. This results in units bunching up more often and units randomly stopping for a few seconds while they're on the move. This kind of program wasn't in vCoH and squads are able to stick together nicely without bunching up so much. This new squad AI they put into CoH2 is unnecessary and only made the game worse.

I'd agree, but only if Conscripts get 8 man squads.

The problem never was the 4 men squads. How often were 4 men grenadiers wiped out in vCoH?

The problem is the poor design of the Soviet faction.

The problem is that Soviet mines does 100 percent damage all around it's blast radius. It doesn't matter if the German squads have more men which would only decrease the amount of squad wipes. The Soviet mine will kill any infantry that touches it and that itself is a big problem.

The problem is the Soviet sniper having 2 men, have sprint and that infantry hop around when being shot at by a sniper.

The problem is Soviet heavy tanks has too large splash damage. When Heavy tanks inflict a lot of damage the splash damage around it decreases depending how far the unit is away from the impact, I the damage around it should decrease more sharply.

Bad AI, for some reason Relic programmed squads so that if any squad member falls behind a little the rest of the squad should wait until that squad member reaches the squad. This results in units bunching up more often and units randomly stopping for a few seconds while they're on the move. This kind of program wasn't in vCoH and squads are able to stick together nicely without bunching up so much. This new squad AI they put into CoH2 is unnecessary and only made the game worse.

i'd agree with you, but the problem is far more complex than it should have been, this is a bandaid solution to an otherwise 'no-gonna-be-fixed-because-its-too-complicated' issue.

splash damage took over target tables, fixing that would mean programming tank guns and i doubt relic will want to do that at this stage of the game cycle.

I'd agree, but only if Conscripts get 8 man squads.

That'd be hilarious +1

Yes I agree this would reduce sniper abuse and squad wipe potential, plus some of the things Jinseual mentioned.

The new german army will probably have 5 man squads for is mainstream infantry I bet

The new german army will probably have 5 man squads for is mainstream infantry I bet

This is the thing that I have been saying since the announcement of the wf factions. instead of fixing the problems with sovs design and ost, they are going to ignore them and make 2 whole new factions that are going to destroy the sov and ost armies, therefore forcing you to buy the new factions in order to be competitive. I dont give a shit what relic says about making the armies balanced. they also said there wouldnt be p2w commanders. there is no reason at all for relic to not have put another patch out by now for the sovs and ost. sov snipers, mines, ele/isu, pgrens, tiger 1 shotting at guns, i would say maxim spam, all need to be worked out before any new factions join.

The new german army will probably have 5 man squads for is mainstream infantry I bet

But Volks are Volks...

It's not about the number of squad members, it's about fixing other things: 1 man squad - soviet sniper, squad wipe mines, etc.
I think your idea should be tested though, but tested carefully. But it's stupid to have such expectations. Relic didn't really test enough anything. The proof it's on the battlefield.

Soviet mines are very good, but I've played and watched plenty of games where the Ostheer suffered little to no losses because of them. Make a sweeper, take alternate routes, play defensive... etc etc etc

Soviet mines are very good, but I've played and watched plenty of games where the Ostheer suffered little to no losses because of them. Make a sweeper, take alternate routes, play defensive... etc etc etc

If you are forced to play defensive and take alternate routes due to mines then the mines have already payed off even without one ever going off.. mmkay?

Soviet mines are very good, but I've played and watched plenty of games where the Ostheer suffered little to no losses because of them. Make a sweeper, take alternate routes, play defensive... etc etc etc

And I have seen many squad wipes only because my Pios were on different side of the map at that moment.

Just to clarify. I am not talking about giving Germans more fire power. I am talking about having 1 extra guy so squads can survive all these one shoot wipes.
I don't think there will be a problem with implementation as they added extra guy to weapon teams before and tweaked DPS tables many times in the past.

it's not going to happen.


This would require to pretty much redesign the entire game in terms of how almost all units work.

Soviet sniper team has 2 models aaaaaand sprint, lmao who decided to give sprint to them? Survivability over 9000

I'd rather they fix the AOE profiles on explosive weapons instead.

I'd rather they fix the AOE profiles on explosive weapons instead.

Define "fix".

5 men gren squads won't happen for sure.

would spreading out the grens solve this? they do bunch up a fair bit (which is lovely for demo charges)

From patch notes:

Very similar to the changes made to grenade AOE profiles. Long and mid-range AOE no longer has a chance to miss its target, the weapon profile damage has been averaged out to compensate. Slight adjustments to AOE radius or distance values were made on a number of vehicles to better align them with their intended performance.

Fix as in: increase the falloff rate of explosive damage with distance from the center of the AOE. Currently it's too spread out resulting in squad wipes and a general devaluation of infantry late-game.