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Soviet Forward HQ is completely broken.

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the_onion_man
22 May 2014, 18:32 PM
#61
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Patrion 14

Posts: 117

jump backJump back to quoted post22 May 2014, 17:52 PMMr. Someguy
The worst part about it is the instant setup imo. It should require the building be occupied for at least 10 seconds for a set up.


Having literally never used it I kept wondering, when I faced it, why one second it wasn't there and the next it was. Is it really instant? That's mind-boggling. I know COH2 is not vCOH but in vCOH it took, what, 30 seconds? And it could be decapped. I seriously don't understand why it shouldn't a) take longer to set up and b) be decappable.
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Chuck Norris
22 May 2014, 18:51 PM
#62
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jump backJump back to quoted post22 May 2014, 18:32 PMthe_onion_man

I seriously don't understand why it shouldn't a) take longer to set up and b) be decappable.


+1
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thestrongone
22 May 2014, 18:58 PM
#63
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Permanently Banned
another lame gimmick for soviets which in addition to isu152 , maxims and sniper destroys the balance.

I played a lot with and against it and trust me its IMPOSSIBLE to counter it early game specially since relic in their infinite wisdom decided to give fht only in tier 2.

Mortars take ages and flame pios get supressed by the million maxims guarding the building.
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elchino7
22 May 2014, 19:06 PM
#64
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We´ve use it with my partner JUST for the lulz. Since the bug i´ve NEVER EVER SEEN it being used against us.

Being able to make something works doesn´t mean it is "powerful". It can be useful for a certain niche scenario and i may consider it more of a cheese "all in" strat rather than anything else.
Same like my "German radio intercept". It´s good to know when people are going double snipers at the beggining :P
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.

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Imagelessbean
22 May 2014, 20:00 PM
#65
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I think people are talking past one another.

Certainly in 1v1 this doctrine is probably fine. However, in team games it really shines.

Also on SOME urban maps this thing can be nearly impossible to kill. Trying playing against an organized team on Faceoff when they go T2 with one player placing FHQ's. They will get mortars and mgs and prevent both counters (Pios and mortars) from getting near the building. Meanwhile, they force all Ost forces to combine at one point and open up the map for capping. If they managed to OP a second house GG.

MHT might be an option but good teams keep leap frogging forward as they throw back attacks.

Lost a game where 6 buildings had FHQ at the end. We all tried to destroy the first one when we saw it, but we could not kill it fast enough. After that it was just a snowball effect.
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Mr. Someguy
22 May 2014, 20:27 PM
#66
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Posts: 4928

It is instant, it's similar to how Elite Troops works. Click ability, click on occupied building, instant FHQ. I don't have a big problem with it normally, but being instant is pretty awful. Anyone could just cap a cutoff or fuel point, jump into the closest building, and pop up a hard point instantly. Even if the point is already being decapped and you are under fire, instant hardpoint, and now they have no fuel.

It hasn't happened to me yet, but I'm surprised that isn't tried more often, Semoisky Winter (especially enemy on bottom) would be the perfect target for that.

Also I hate that people keep saying "Mortar Half-Track" is the counter. Counters should be available to anyone, not "Oh you don't have the right doctrine? Well try again next game then".

I do not think that they are glaringly OP, but I do think that the effort to remove them is far far more than the effort to make them.
jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2016, 01:09 AMluvnest
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII

> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
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elchino7
22 May 2014, 20:28 PM
#67
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jump backJump back to quoted post22 May 2014, 20:00 PMImagelessbean
I think people are talking past one another.

Certainly in 1v1 this doctrine is probably fine. However, in team games it really shines.

Also on SOME urban maps this thing can be nearly impossible to kill. Trying playing against an organized team on Faceoff when they go T2 with one player placing FHQ's. They will get mortars and mgs and prevent both counters (Pios and mortars) from getting near the building. Meanwhile, they force all Ost forces to combine at one point and open up the map for capping. If they managed to OP a second house GG.

MHT might be an option but good teams keep leap frogging forward as they throw back attacks.

Lost a game where 6 buildings had FHQ at the end. We all tried to destroy the first one when we saw it, but we could not kill it fast enough. After that it was just a snowball effect.


Don´t you think it´s more of a core desing problem with 3v3+ with the amount of resources you can get?
I´m sure there are other more gamebreaking strats on 3v3+.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.

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van Voort
22 May 2014, 20:46 PM
#68
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jump backJump back to quoted post22 May 2014, 17:26 PMChuck Norris

Try to keep an open mind. Just because you haven't been up against it to see what it means or that not so many people use it doesn't automatically mean it's fine the way it is. Maybe some hands on experience might be helpful.


I started a series of stategy threads devoted to the units no one seems to love (so far: Stug E, DSHK, Mech Groups, 45mm ATG)

I went out to get all the bulletins so I would have to use every unit

So I don't reject anything as useless and try to find a use for everything rather than the same ol, same ol


I love to see people take commanders and units people write off and make something of them
Resident Soviet Whiner and Grand Master Bias Jedi; General Secretary of the Soviet Whine Hydra Collective; Axis Hating Sheeple; Allied Butt Buddy! Collect Them All!
Also the African Branch of TAB Bulletins

PS: The Italian Army fought with courage and skill
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Katitof
22 May 2014, 20:58 PM
#69
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Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

@van Voort
StuG E is one of the most loved units this patch.
Its so full of awesome that it makes me shed a tear when I think about it while using SU-76(yay I'm using SU-76 and everytime I'm equally disappointed!).
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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van Voort
22 May 2014, 21:30 PM
#70
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Yeah, but I started that particular thread a couple patches ago, when everyone still thought it was a joke.

http://www.coh2.org/topic/15471/uses-for-stug-es

Since then then STUG-E has climbed up a bit (the bulletin is now 16th rarest and it was 9th).

The SU76 top bulletin has dropped into the bottom 10 (which proves your point)


To return to subject:

A basic strategy is to find out what the people who play the other side complain about and then do it.

Ergo, the more complain about the FHQ the more we will see it
Resident Soviet Whiner and Grand Master Bias Jedi; General Secretary of the Soviet Whine Hydra Collective; Axis Hating Sheeple; Allied Butt Buddy! Collect Them All!
Also the African Branch of TAB Bulletins

PS: The Italian Army fought with courage and skill
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1[][]
24 May 2014, 03:51 AM
#71
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Posts: 172

FHQ wouldn't be so bad if relic wasn't full of pansy asses that catered to soviet players. We could build a flamer HT as soon as it hit the field and you had enough muni in T1.

But flamer HQ is now monopolized to soviets in the fucking beginning of the game. Who even builds that piece of shit when by T2 the soviets (and soon the german player) will have tanks and PLENTY of AT ?

Just like in CoH1, wehr is mans faction point blank period
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Brick Top
24 May 2014, 06:11 AM
#72
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Posts: 1162

Wtf u smoking. Werh was not mans faction, terror and zombie medic bunker spam were the two most safe and reliable strats in coh. Ok maybe T3 blitz was a little bit a mans strat.

But generally USA was hard to stay in the game past mid game.
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1[][]
24 May 2014, 11:28 AM
#73
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Posts: 172

jump backJump back to quoted post24 May 2014, 06:11 AMBrick Top
Wtf u smoking. Werh was not mans faction, terror and zombie medic bunker spam were the two most safe and reliable strats in coh. Ok maybe T3 blitz was a little bit a mans strat.

But generally USA was hard to stay in the game past mid game.


OOOO really, what year did you play coh1?
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Sarantini
25 May 2014, 00:24 AM
#74
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So I used it in a couple 2v2 matches and I dont think it is op. it is however pretty badly designed. First of all it is in a shit doctrine with 1 useless ability (armored decteciton). 2 good but simliar (fire and booby) and 1 meh (m42 atg).you should not be able to upgrade instantly and only in friendly connected territory. Enemies should be able to decap it. In return the fuel cost shouldbe lowered.
The cost is somewhat softened by allowing you to skip medics in the beginning and molotovs since your conscnripts are strong with the buff.
http://www.coh2.org/replay/17782/fhq-in-high-level-play/page/1#post_id157477
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Imagelessbean
27 May 2014, 06:36 AM
#75
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  •  
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    [TTT]-PolishUnderground " flag [TTT]-PolishUnderground " [TTT]-Carbon05 flag [TTT]-Carbon05 [TTT]-CrazyAlpha flag [TTT]-CrazyAlpha [TTT]-Dirk Deagler flag [TTT]-Dirk Deagler
    Imagelessbean flag Imagelessbean -(TBS)-Mittens flag -(TBS)-Mittens tatersalad666 flag tatersalad666 UncleLongGun flag UncleLongGun
    Forward HQ problems
    by: Imagelessbean map: Angermuende
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Again this is only in larger games, but what you can see in the first 10 minutes is how poorly the Soviet player played, but how hard it was to stop them. They were able to blob up mgs and simply walk forward even though I had the counter (mortars) because of the FHQ buffs. You can also watch as buffs stack on one another in close proximity making units nearly impossible to kill.

This unit may work in lower player count games but in these higher player count games it is unfair. It may need to come out at a later CP point. The upgrade should also not be instant and you should have to be in your own territory.
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Chuck Norris
27 May 2014, 07:02 AM
#76
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Posts: 93

jump backJump back to quoted post27 May 2014, 06:36 AMImagelessbean
  •  
    thread icon bolt_grey_20x20
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    VS
    [TTT]-PolishUnderground " flag [TTT]-PolishUnderground " [TTT]-Carbon05 flag [TTT]-Carbon05 [TTT]-CrazyAlpha flag [TTT]-CrazyAlpha [TTT]-Dirk Deagler flag [TTT]-Dirk Deagler
    Imagelessbean flag Imagelessbean -(TBS)-Mittens flag -(TBS)-Mittens tatersalad666 flag tatersalad666 UncleLongGun flag UncleLongGun
    Forward HQ problems
    by: Imagelessbean map: Angermuende
    1
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The upgrade should also not be instant and you should have to be in your own territory.


Peter, time to take some notes!
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FestiveLongJohns
27 May 2014, 07:18 AM
#77
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Patrion 15

Posts: 1157 | Subs: 2

The problem with it is that the only reliable counter is a flame barrage from the MHT, and by getting one you pretty much neuter the entire commander. Its poorly designed because its almost impossible to deal with in 2v2 unless you go MHT, and hilariously easy to deal with if you do.

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Flyingsmonster
2 Jun 2014, 00:37 AM
#78
avatar of Flyingsmonster

Posts: 155

Well guys, I encountered this again. I tried your "strategies" to counter it, but it does not work. The fucking building is indestructible.

It took a fucking Stuka bomb to finally take it out. Yes, there was probably some poor play on both me and my teammates part in this game, but please watch how after something like 20 mortar barrages the building is still standing.

I could not counter it with a mortar halftrack as I was already opel blitz commander and I was not expecting a forward hq. Even though this is besides the point. A counter to a building should not be doctrinal for the Germans.

Please, someone explain how this is fair again? Explain to me how you would have countered this building with 4 mortars around it + mgs and at guns.

I tried to avoid it, but that part of the map is just crucial on Semoisky.

http://www.coh2.org/replay/18065/forward-hq-on-semoisky
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vietnamabc
2 Jun 2014, 02:10 AM
#79
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Posts: 1063

jump backJump back to quoted post22 May 2014, 20:46 PMvan Voort


I started a series of stategy threads devoted to the units no one seems to love (so far: Stug E, DSHK, Mech Groups, 45mm ATG)

I went out to get all the bulletins so I would have to use every unit

So I don't reject anything as useless and try to find a use for everything rather than the same ol, same ol


I love to see people take commanders and units people write off and make something of them

45mm ATG is awesome when the Ostheer spam Puma or Stug.
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Brick Top
2 Jun 2014, 08:23 AM
#80
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Posts: 1162

First person to post a video of a SturmTiger blowing up a FHQ wins a cookie.
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