Have been patient enough...where is our balance patch.

Oh common.

You are really leaving the game in this state.....Soviets dominating and exploiting left right and centre.

Hate to whine again but there are countless threads with valid arguments that the least patch has completely ruined balance and tipped everything into exploitable progression for soviets.

Please give us a patch.

You did not hesitate to nerf germans to oblivion.

Now where is the fairness in that?

I don't get why whiney shit doesn't get deleted, yet when I would complain about Germans being OP its insta-trashed?

Nut up and shut up. As a soviet player the game has been tipped in the German favor for a majority of its release.

Whenever my gaurds drop a PTRS, i treat it as a good thing since you dont need PTRS for button and PTRS does zero damage anyways and them dropping a PTRS means 1 more mosin nagant.

Bonus points if a grenadier squad picks it up.

Relic are probably balancing the new factions with the old ones, so they wont make any changes until release.

Love how sovet tanks demolish german inf. But its not ok for tiger to be sligtly better at ai than other gernan tanks. Soviet player logic....

I don't get why whiney shit doesn't get deleted, yet when I would complain about Germans being OP its insta-trashed?

Nut up and shut up. As a soviet player the game has been tipped in the German favor for a majority of its release.

You just admitted ur a soviet player. U are obviously happy the game is tipped towards soviets. So ur reply is not a surprise. U are just like katitof.

Love how sovet tanks demolish german inf. But its not ok for tiger to be sligtly better at ai than other gernan tanks. Soviet player logic....

Have you ever used the Tiger? The thing is a beast these days. IS-2 had dangerous squad wiping ability and it got nerfed. Now Tiger has dangerous squad wiping ability (with its RoF and 3 MGs) and it too could do with a nerf.

VetLolCake, it'd be nice if you gave us a replay where you display all this bias of which you speak...

Pgrens solid? Hm.
I still don't understand, why Pgrens are "not supposed to" be a mid-close reliable unit. Why do they have ASSAULT rifles? (STGs?) Give them rifles or carbines then, ffs and it will be more understandable.
I mean what do germans really have in terms of infantry?

Grenadiers? "Fantastic"?! Yeah, they are at most suitable but "fantastic"?... No, "fantastic" are the shocks. They still die like flies and especially on retreat. A retreating 2 or 3 man squad being killed on retreat is not nice to see, no matter the faction.

Pzgrenadiers? If you take one-two steps out of cover you are down by 2 models. That happened to me while attacking a ZIS crew. A ZIS CREW! In that second is retreat or die. A unit with automatic rifles' purpose is to stay in green cover and defend? Where is the logic? Ok.... they can be upgraded with schrecks. The only true purpose of their current existence. Still, they only can use them defensively because, remember, one step out of cover and you're doomed, so you can chase nobody with that schreck. Don't tell me that for soviet being out of cover means the same penalty because I'll instantly tell ya that they have a 6 men squad.

Osttruppen? I'll let them out, their existence is embarrassing when speaking about infantry performance. They are more expensive than soviet irregulars while being torn apart by them (because, at german faction, nobody gives you a free lmg42 or a free Dp28. To whom will want to tell me that I have this facility at mobile Defense Doctrine: yeah, the chance for that Ost squad to actually have a lmg is similar to our chance to be hit by a meteorite).

Assault Grenadiers - the only reliable german infantry unit in the game. They have their weaknesses but that's normal, used properly they are ok. Oh, wait they are stuck in ONE DLC doctrine. Forget them....

So right there we've got 4 infantry unit types from which we have to chose, considering their "performances"

Now please count the number of infantry unit types at soviets, doctrinaire or default,and on top of that, please tell me, in how many soviet doctrines do you have the best soviet infantry and the best infantry in the game and in how many german doctrines do you have the best german infantry unit in the game.

No offense but your issues with German infantry seem relegated to how you are using them. Trying to force PGrens into a role they weren't designed for because "they have Assault rifles they are supposed to be pre-patch shocks" does not mean they aren't effective. Besides, from a realism perspective, Assault rifles are most effective at medium range. They are more accurate at range than sub machine guns, but still excel at close range.

As for your comments about Grens dying like flies on retreat, this is not unique to Grenadiers. They don't have retreat modifiers that make them more susceptible to being chased down. They can be hunted down on retreat by an m3 just as easily as a conscript can be hunted down by a scout car. Grens are extremely strong at range, and I almost always upgrade at least one, usually 2 with LMGs and they are absolutely beast.

I agree with the comments about Pgrens have a role overlap with grenadiers, but I find they are useful for their utility. I will usually build at least one squad and use it as an AI unit along with my grenadiers until soviet armor starts rolling out, at which point I upgrade to shrecks and they become extremely strong when kept near a pak. The two together prevent your paks from easily being flanked.

Ostruppen? Yeah I agree they are pretty much worthless.

Ass grens have their use, but I would not call them the best German infantry unit. That belongs to Grenadiers. They are only effective at very close range and assuming you know how to react to them, are pretty easy to deal with and expensive to reinforce.

No offense but your issues with German infantry seem relegated to how you are using them. Trying to force PGrens into a role they weren't designed for because "they have Assault rifles they are supposed to be pre-patch shocks" does not mean they aren't effective. Besides, from a realism perspective, Assault rifles are most effective at medium range. They are more accurate at range than sub machine guns, but still excel at close range.

As for your comments about Grens dying like flies on retreat, this is not unique to Grenadiers. They don't have retreat modifiers that make them more susceptible to being chased down. They can be hunted down on retreat by an m3 just as easily as a conscript can be hunted down by a scout car. Grens are extremely strong at range, and I almost always upgrade at least one, usually 2 with LMGs and they are absolutely beast.

I agree with the comments about Pgrens have a role overlap with grenadiers, but I find they are useful for their utility. I will usually build at least one squad and use it as an AI unit along with my grenadiers until soviet armor starts rolling out, at which point I upgrade to shrecks and they become extremely strong when kept near a pak. The two together prevent your paks from easily being flanked.

Ostruppen? Yeah I agree they are pretty much worthless.

Ass grens have their use, but I would not call them the best German infantry unit. That belongs to Grenadiers. They are only effective at very close range and assuming you know how to react to them, are pretty easy to deal with and expensive to reinforce.

I know how PzGrens are "suposed to be used" these days, but I disagree with the concept. This I wanted to emphasize. The idea is that germans have to few infantry unit types and the ones existing are generaly crap and harder to be kept alive unlike their soviet counterparts. I observed while playing with soviets I keep my infantry alive much better and the phenomenon is quite similar while playing with AGs. That is why I believe that even if an infantry squad is crap and needs to fight upclose, the squad size still matters. A larger squad will make game somewhat easier for you.

Coming back to infantry units quality, biggest AGs problem is their lack of AT capability but they have two other features who recommend them as the (maybe) best german infantry. They kill everything quite fast except shocks and their assault grenades, when properly used are a perfect tool for smashing infantry, hmgs, clear out buildings, etc. They are the ONLY german infantry fit for flanking and for an agressive play style due to their rush ability.

Now don't get me wrong about grens. But it's a diference between the sharpest infantry unit of a faction (elite unit) and the back bone unit of that army. Of course grenadiers are irreplaceable, but they are the back bone of the army. I was comparing the top infantry from both factions. If we think at grens as the best german faction infantry, then the game is hardly unbalanced because I would have to compare them with shocks.

Still, I really think it's a problem with this lack of infantry choices at Ostheer compared to soviets. There should be some crack infantry units similar to shocks in some german doctrines, maybe not as good as the shocks, but close. Stormtroopers, something.

Whilst some of your points are valid Heini, I disagree about Germans getting SHock equivalent elite infantry. Soviets are all about infantry and they revolve around their doctrinal infantry. Their tanks (non-doctrinal) are all meh, German armour in nearly everyway is superior and non-doctrinal. It'd be stupid to give Germans the best infantry, the best armour and lock Soviets into 2 buildings and not Germans. The faction design is piss-poor already. German infantry and tanks being non-doctrinally superior would just make things worse.

i wish grens were balanced around 5men. adjusted for lower dps, but somewhat more suvivable and less prone to 1 shots.

makes squad losses alot more forgiving and recrewing support weapons much easier.

You just admitted ur a soviet player. U are obviously happy the game is tipped towards soviets. So ur reply is not a surprise. U are just like katitof.

Like you aren't a German player. Now stop calling each other fanboys because you both are fanboys and therefore it's no use calling each other fanboys.

5 man Squadsizes would also help with capturing Supportweopons.
But on the other hand I like the "Elite" feel. HöHö.

5 man Squadsizes would also help with capturing Supportweopons.
But on the other hand I like the "Elite" feel. HöHö.

No, 4 mans are fine.

Germans: recrew with 2 instead of 3. That´s it.

Sorry. Don't think Germans are OP at all. I've noticed that a well supported Half Track with 2 x grens (normally one with an LMG) and an MG is bloody hard to get past in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing.

There won't be any big patch until the WFA release. But either way balance will be off for another half year.

Use pioneers to recrew. It is cheaper.

There won't be any big patch until the WFA release. But either way balance will be off for another half year.

You can say that again. The only thing you are mistaking about is the time. Not for a half year, but for at list an year. They couldn't balance the game in one year, while having 2 factions. When there will be 4, what are you expecting at? The balance will become an utopia and will be beyond human reach.

You can say that again. The only thing you are mistaking about is the time. Not for a half year, but for at list an year. They couldn't balance the game in one year, while having 2 factions. When there will be 4, what are you expecting at? The balance will become an utopia and will be beyond human reach.

Well, the game made a pretty huge jump in the right direction each time they abandoned original ideas and implemented something more suitable(old vet? old infantry combat? old, unreliable AoE profiles?), so after all that lessons there actually is a slight possibility that we won't be to step 1 at WF release.

Well, the game made a pretty huge jump in the right direction each time they abandoned original ideas and implemented something more suitable(old vet? old infantry combat? old, unreliable AoE profiles?), so after all that lessons there actually is a slight possibility that we won't be to step 1 at WF release.

Now we'll see about that, won't we?