This ability is just a bit silly. It has no visible warning, lands fast as hell, and completely destroys just about anything it hits directly. Not to mention that 3 out of the 4 docs that have it also have recon ability to easily spot targets for it. For 160 muni's it crushes the soviet counterpart at 200 muni's. This should be on par in cost with the soviet 200 muni bombing run and have a better visible indicator of where it's landing.
Stuka Dive Bomb
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7 May 2014, 04:18 AM
#1
Posts: 50
7 May 2014, 04:24 AM
#2
Posts: 1248
Alright do you play with game muted because if you do you don't know when it is going to come and if you do hear it you should think about what its target is going to be in a split second.
7 May 2014, 04:29 AM
#3
Posts: 155
You have around 6 seconds to move your units before the bomb hits. The noise is loud enough to completely move out of the way before it hits. Adding smoke would just be nonsensical, as the noise is already a clear indicator of where the bomb will land.
Once you hear it, you should move every single one of your units in the vicinity. There is ample warning and time to move your units.
Relic has never addressed this in the past because it really doesn't need to be. It's still expensive at 160 munitions, and it doesn't unlock until the very late game. I don't see any real issues with it.
If you're complaining about air recon, that means it is costing the German player 240 munitions to bomb a single target. Recon is not free.
Also, the Stuka bomb is only available to four commanders, and only two of those have air recon - Jaeger armor and Close Air support.
Once you hear it, you should move every single one of your units in the vicinity. There is ample warning and time to move your units.
Relic has never addressed this in the past because it really doesn't need to be. It's still expensive at 160 munitions, and it doesn't unlock until the very late game. I don't see any real issues with it.
If you're complaining about air recon, that means it is costing the German player 240 munitions to bomb a single target. Recon is not free.
Also, the Stuka bomb is only available to four commanders, and only two of those have air recon - Jaeger armor and Close Air support.
7 May 2014, 05:30 AM
#4
Posts: 379
I do think two things to do with it could be rebalanced.
1) That it kills a howitzer in one. Obviously the howitzer can't dodge it and that's 600 mp down the drain as soon as it's revealed.
2) The Elephant doctrine has it. Which eliminates one of the few things that can hurt an Elephant - a howitzer/b4.
I'd like to see those things adjusted. Otherwise, it's fine.
1) That it kills a howitzer in one. Obviously the howitzer can't dodge it and that's 600 mp down the drain as soon as it's revealed.
2) The Elephant doctrine has it. Which eliminates one of the few things that can hurt an Elephant - a howitzer/b4.
I'd like to see those things adjusted. Otherwise, it's fine.
7 May 2014, 06:14 AM
#5
Posts: 1026
It's a good ability certainly. One of the best available to the German faction. It's not a reliable heavy tank killer although it can provide the finishing blow of the enemy does not or cannot dodge it (i.e. immobilized). It's basically the German IL-2 strike, but less powerful / less expensive. It's the hard counter to Howitzers or static blobbing in the same way.
I don't know how I feel about the audio-only warning, but I'm not convinced this is a major balance issue. I often do more damage with an ability that does have a visual warning like the Frag bombing run, and if you can guess where the Stukka strike as coming you have more time to dodge than you do with most strikes.
I hate it when this happens to my team (Pak 43 / 105mm howi gets bombed instantly), but I don't know if I want to make it go away because I also feel like I need the ability to instagib static guns when I face them down. It's annoying if you're on the recieving end, but I don't think it's a facitonal imbalance.
I don't know how I feel about the audio-only warning, but I'm not convinced this is a major balance issue. I often do more damage with an ability that does have a visual warning like the Frag bombing run, and if you can guess where the Stukka strike as coming you have more time to dodge than you do with most strikes.
1) That it kills a howitzer in one. Obviously the howitzer can't dodge it and that's 600 mp down the drain as soon as it's revealed.
I hate it when this happens to my team (Pak 43 / 105mm howi gets bombed instantly), but I don't know if I want to make it go away because I also feel like I need the ability to instagib static guns when I face them down. It's annoying if you're on the recieving end, but I don't think it's a facitonal imbalance.
7 May 2014, 08:54 AM
#6
Posts: 1162
I think Stuka is stronger at low levels of play and IL2 bomb is stronger at higher levels.
Because at low levels people don't respond quickly to the audio alert or think where it will likely land. More skilled players will quickly know where it's coming and try move units.
IL on the other have, at low levels of play will often be dropped in obvious locations where the enemy is almost certainly going to be watching and can micro away. Where as at higher levels, it's likely to be called where they know there enemy is unlikely to be watching, and hence no warning given. Things like dropping it on a capping squad just before the flag de-caps.
Stuka is powerful in large team games as there is so much going on and more units to guess. / micro
Because at low levels people don't respond quickly to the audio alert or think where it will likely land. More skilled players will quickly know where it's coming and try move units.
IL on the other have, at low levels of play will often be dropped in obvious locations where the enemy is almost certainly going to be watching and can micro away. Where as at higher levels, it's likely to be called where they know there enemy is unlikely to be watching, and hence no warning given. Things like dropping it on a capping squad just before the flag de-caps.
Stuka is powerful in large team games as there is so much going on and more units to guess. / micro
7 May 2014, 09:04 AM
#7
Posts: 1740
I do think two things to do with it could be rebalanced.
1) That it kills a howitzer in one. Obviously the howitzer can't dodge it and that's 600 mp down the drain as soon as it's revealed.
2) The Elephant doctrine has it. Which eliminates one of the few things that can hurt an Elephant - a howitzer/b4.
I'd like to see those things adjusted. Otherwise, it's fine.
In 2 on 2 at least one player nowadays has to take the Elephant doctrine while the other one mostly takes Speerhead.
B4 kills all the German Tanks and the Germans can't do anything BUT Recon + Stuka.
So I think 240 Ammunition is a lot to kill a single howitzer that can be rebuild.
Elephant is expensive as hell so there won't be a lot more other tanks around. Flanking is the key because unlike ISU-152 it won't kill a single man in 1.000 years.
It is though God by command has withdrawn every other throne.
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'
7 May 2014, 09:10 AM
#8
Posts: 2819
Alright do you play with game muted because if you do you don't know when it is going to come and if you do hear it you should think about what its target is going to be in a split second.
haha, do you play with the game muted
But indeed, you hear it coming a looong time before
All posts made are about situations in 2v2's. Not a 1v1 player.
7 May 2014, 09:19 AM
#9
Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2
Yeah I know, it's like a Stealth Bomber
"Hey Dimitri, can you hear a buzzing noise?"
"Yeah, I think i't s the factory siren telling us it's Dinner Time, or maybe a very angry wasp"
"Hey Dimitri, can you hear a buzzing noise?"
"Yeah, I think i't s the factory siren telling us it's Dinner Time, or maybe a very angry wasp"
Resident Soviet Whiner and Grand Master Bias Jedi; General Secretary of the Soviet Whine Hydra Collective; Axis Hating Sheeple; Allied Butt Buddy! Collect Them All!
Also the African Branch of TAB Bulletins
PS: The Italian Army fought with courage and skill
Also the African Branch of TAB Bulletins
PS: The Italian Army fought with courage and skill
7 May 2014, 09:22 AM
#10
Posts: 1701
In 2 on 2 at least one player nowadays has to take the Elephant doctrine while the other one mostly takes Speerhead.
B4 kills all the German Tanks and the Germans can't do anything BUT Recon + Stuka.
So I think 240 Ammunition is a lot to kill a single howitzer that can be rebuild.
Elephant is expensive as hell so there won't be a lot more other tanks around. Flanking is the key because unlike ISU-152 it won't kill a single man in 1.000 years.
this^
Blaue Division - The best corp
BPX - Black Phoenix, Clan leader.
BPX - Black Phoenix, Clan leader.
7 May 2014, 10:55 AM
#11
Posts: 1042
I don't think the problem is the cost involved, I think it's that it is a no brainer in the same doctrine as the elefant.
7 May 2014, 11:18 AM
#12
Posts: 307
This ability is totally fine.
It is expensive, and it takes a lot to gather enough muni. You basically need to sacrifice weapon upgrades on your infantry, mines, or choose muni caches over fuel and get less vehicles in late game.
You will also never see anybody spamming this ability during a single game.
It is expensive, and it takes a lot to gather enough muni. You basically need to sacrifice weapon upgrades on your infantry, mines, or choose muni caches over fuel and get less vehicles in late game.
You will also never see anybody spamming this ability during a single game.
Vae Victis!
7 May 2014, 11:20 AM
#13
Posts: 807
I don't think the problem is the cost involved, I think it's that it is a no brainer in the same doctrine as the elefant.
Saw a replay once with a calculated 50 kg bomb strike dropped at encounter against an advancing soviet infantry blob. That was by no means a "no brainer" action.
7 May 2014, 11:25 AM
#14
Posts: 1701
The ISU doctrines also have antiartillery (anti PAK43) called IL2 Bombing run and no one complains¿?
Blaue Division - The best corp
BPX - Black Phoenix, Clan leader.
BPX - Black Phoenix, Clan leader.
7 May 2014, 11:32 AM
#15
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
The ISU doctrines also have antiartillery (anti PAK43) called IL2 Bombing run and no one complains¿?
Neither of the ISU doctrines has recon planes.
7 May 2014, 11:35 AM
#16
Posts: 1701
If someone uses 80 + 160 munitions to kill a 600mp shit that can be built again, I think its a pretty good deal. Next time deny the german player munitions points instead of fuel, and the reign of terror of your ML20 will begin.
Blaue Division - The best corp
BPX - Black Phoenix, Clan leader.
BPX - Black Phoenix, Clan leader.
7 May 2014, 11:47 AM
#17
Posts: 1026
Perhaps instead of removing stukka we can remove recon run from the Ele doctrine?
That will only really affect 1v1 balance though since most teams will have a recon in the other doc if they move it out. I think it might be better to rebalance the Ele and ISU in other ways to make them less "necessary" in every team game, but this is a Stukka thread I guess.
That will only really affect 1v1 balance though since most teams will have a recon in the other doc if they move it out. I think it might be better to rebalance the Ele and ISU in other ways to make them less "necessary" in every team game, but this is a Stukka thread I guess.
7 May 2014, 11:52 AM
#18
2 
Posts: 1108
Perhaps instead of removing stukka we can remove recon run from the Ele doctrine?
and this will never happen...
btw there are also some other doctrins with recon and bombing runs.
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7 May 2014, 11:56 AM
#19
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
and this will never happen...
btw there are also some other doctrins with recon and bombing runs.
These other doctrines don't have elephants that can most reliably be countered by arty.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
7 May 2014, 12:20 PM
#20
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
In 1v1 or 2v2 it's easy to dodge this air strike but 3v3 or 4v4 it has very big chance to hit. Comparing this to IL, IL is useless. Flares on the ground show where it's going to hit so all you need is to move few units. When you hear this noise, you have to move all of your units cause you never know where it will land.
Well, IL still can be useful but you need to stun tanks, immobilize and then strike. Sound like a joke when you see how much this ability costs.
Give soviets sound alert also!
Well, IL still can be useful but you need to stun tanks, immobilize and then strike. Sound like a joke when you see how much this ability costs.
Give soviets sound alert also!
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