Honest opinions about Balance - Soviet adv

Its called Panzer 4.
You might have heard about it once or twice.

T85 - Flakpanzer



He did say T85, and this is a T85.

He meant T34/85.

Its pretty safe to assume that german fanboys are completely clueless about even names of soviet units. That assumption is quite accurate in vast majority of cases.

Context of his post clearly indicates that he have absolutely no idea what he is talking about.

Pretty much I believe that the Soviets have better infantry but are equal to the Germans in armor for the most part. Tiger tank is what shifts the balance. It is the German OP unit and the most OP & useful unit in the game, so I think tiger commanders are now the best way for German players to get ahead.

Germans are OP. The commander with the Assault Grenadiers is a little bit over the top.

That's why I bought it.

And it's too easy to win...

Just wait till you play against Soviet players with actual micro. You will find that assault grens are the least attractive German infantry. Assault grens devastate anyone who cannot micro well because you almost always will be able to close the distance easily and thus slaughter them.

Well... After all this what I read how soviets are OP I decided to try it and back to germans. Result? 6 W/1L.
1 game was with guy who spammed cons. Rest games were with guys who used cons/penals+guards+snipers.
It was so easy to destroy them BUT ONLY with doctrine which provides assaults (forgot the name...).
It's quite easy. Bring on 4 assaults. Try to stick them close (if M3 arrives run towards it. I lost few assaults but I forced them to reatreat or even destroy M3). But if I have assaults alone, just retreat and wait for Skdfz 221(I guess that't the number or maybe 222... Never mind. You know witch truck I mean). It will come out shortly after M3 push. 3-4 mins with assaults+ sdkfz and fun begins.
Call in 2x PGrens with Sdkfz 250. Upgrade engineeres with flame, put them to one of sdkfz and none combination will stop 2-4 assaults, sdkfz 221 and trucks with PGrens and engineeres with flame. Penals are useless, they will die very soon. Guards and cons... Well... blind costs 40 ammo and requires to stand still (how to stand still when 15 assaulst grens are attacking you?!) cons may throw AT nade but it won't destroy anything. Stug III E (thanks to staying at BP 1 it will be even two Stugs) arrive/s and the game is done. Ammo went only for flame so it will be above 250. If needed upgrade with schrecks but usually it won't be need.
Sorry for my english. I wrote it really fast.
I definitely don't consider myself as top/very good player (just good) so maybe if the game match me with some pro player this combination won't works but till this moment it works perfectly.

First, here, take this, its dangerous to go out there alone:
Show Spoiler

And second, rank 200 at soviet do not equal rank 200 as germans.
What I mean is, much much more people play germans, therefore to get the same rank as soviets you need to beat much more people. This somewhat changed post patch but still there is a considerable difference between sov and ger playerbases since day 1 pretty much.

This means you most likely need to score better elo then if you'd played as soviets.

If I was to guess, rank 200 as soviets equals rank 400-500 as germans. Top 50 are pretty much equal.
If you think for a minute about it, it will be as clear as sky.

You can't expect equal rank when playerbase for the factions is so unequal.

You add the least value out of everyone in these forums

Just wait till you play against Soviet players with actual micro. You will find that assault grens are the least attractive German infantry. Assault grens devastate anyone who cannot micro well because you almost always will be able to close the distance easily and thus slaughter them.

Assgrens are weak armor. The cons with ppsh doo this rush too. The shock's, with the great armor, is 3x 4x better.

Hey braciszek, you use the T85 in the picture? What is that expansion? lol

Hey katitof, you stop use the T34 34 34 34 34 85?

I have very shitty micro skills and out of the last 40 games as soviets I lost 5 and about 6 crashes/drops. Except for 2 games, I have pushed opponents back into their base with just hardcore mg maxim spam. The games I lost were due to me building maxims while p4s were out( I was waiting for is2). After i started building t34s to take advantage of the complete map domination, I haven't lost yet. I don't understand why anyone would find Soviets hard to play now. MMAxim spam goes leaps and bounds beyond what pio spam could ever do.

I can say though, things change once Tigers and Elefants come out. I have to turn my brain back on once they hit the field. The Panther is a joke right now. Its so soft a squishy, it cant survive long enough to use any of its upgraded penetration.

Tiger OP but that's not exactly news. Zis spam is best soviet can do (i.e. horrible).

Wrong. Zis+Su-85, or dual su-85s, and remember you allways have next to them the AT nades. First fails? No pb, throw another and there you have your perfect big slow target costing a ton of fuel and manpower, dying in a few seconds. Very OP indeed.

Well... After all this what I read how soviets are OP I decided to try it and back to germans. Result? 6 W/1L.
1 game was with guy who spammed cons. Rest games were with guys who used cons/penals+guards+snipers.
It was so easy to destroy them BUT ONLY with doctrine which provides assaults (forgot the name...).
It's quite easy. Bring on 4 assaults. Try to stick them close (if M3 arrives run towards it. I lost few assaults but I forced them to reatreat or even destroy M3). But if I have assaults alone, just retreat and wait for Skdfz 221(I guess that't the number or maybe 222... Never mind. You know witch truck I mean). It will come out shortly after M3 push. 3-4 mins with assaults+ sdkfz and fun begins.
Call in 2x PGrens with Sdkfz 250. Upgrade engineeres with flame, put them to one of sdkfz and none combination will stop 2-4 assaults, sdkfz 221 and trucks with PGrens and engineeres with flame. Penals are useless, they will die very soon. Guards and cons... Well... blind costs 40 ammo and requires to stand still (how to stand still when 15 assaulst grens are attacking you?!) cons may throw AT nade but it won't destroy anything. Stug III E (thanks to staying at BP 1 it will be even two Stugs) arrive/s and the game is done. Ammo went only for flame so it will be above 250. If needed upgrade with schrecks but usually it won't be need.
Sorry for my english. I wrote it really fast.

I definitely don't consider myself as top/very good player (just good) so maybe if the game match me with some pro player this combination won't works but till this moment it works perfectly.

Seems like you do a pretty good job against place 20.000 in the ladderboards. Saw nowhere in your description what your super army with no AT capabilities will do against several T34s or even T70s.
Playing mostly with one faction and almost never with the other can be deceiving. From place 300 with one faction you comeback and play at place 5000 level. It's normal to win even if this is not your usual army. I was falling in the same trap while playing soviets.

There is some truth in what you say though. And that true is that now, at the current state of the game, the best chance of german player is to cut as long as possible his opponent fuel, or to seize it as long as possible to deny heavy vehicles build or call ins. Tbh these are the only situations in wich I won after the new patch, when I was agressive enough and I succeeded to deny opponent's fuel. In a balanced situation (one fuel at me, one at the adversary, well.... after very long games, the russian oponent won).

Con spam > Gren spam. It has returned in full force. Though it is not as potent as it was before, especially with the old PPsH, it can still do waves of dmg especially when cons are grouped together. Soviet mines are capable of wiping full health gren squads on occasion and while they retreat. Soviet Armor is More AI then AT overall. Maxims while weak, are still effective with good micro(which I'm fine with) because it can be countered by your average german mortar. Shocks are very effective at close range, so as a German player you must always keep your distance. Soviet snipers are trollolo, especially with guards, but still counterable....as long as you don't mess up or get boned by RNG. ISU is a Gren's worst nightmare. Nerfs are not needed, but changes to the way certain vehicles, abilities, weapons work are needed.

Seems like you do a pretty good job against place 20.000 in the ladderboards. Saw nowhere in your description what your super army with no AT capabilities will do against several T34s or even T70s.
Playing mostly with one faction and almost never with the other can be deceiving. From place 300 with one faction you comeback and play at place 5000 level. It's normal to win even if this is not your usual army. I was falling in the same trap while playing soviets.

There is some truth in what you say though. And that true is that now, at the current state of the game, the best chance of german player is to cut as long as possible his opponent fuel, or to seize it as long as possible to deny heavy vehicles build or call ins. Tbh these are the only situations in wich I won after the new patch, when I was agressive enough and I succeeded to deny opponent's fuel. In a balanced situation (one fuel at me, one at the adversary, well.... after very long games, the russian oponent won).

About T70... Yep I forgot to mention that. It comes out 30sec-1min before Stug III E = problem solved or just upgrade PGrens with schrecks put them in 250 and chase T70.
T34? the game ends too quickly to bring t34 on, and even if 2x Stug III E + PGrens in sdkfz with schrecks can deal with it.

Assaults and Sdkfz 250 allow me to take control over whole map, cut off fuel so Stug III E and schrekcs are enough for "heavy" units (none IS, ISU, KV will arrive - too few fuel).

About T70... Yep I forgot to mention that. It comes out 30sec-1min before Stug III E = problem solved or just upgrade PGrens with schrecks put them in 250 and chase T70.
T34? the game ends too quickly to bring t34 on, and even if 2x Stug III E + PGrens in sdkfz with schrecks can deal with it.

Assaults and Sdkfz 250 allow me to take control over whole map, cut off fuel so Stug III E and schrekcs are enough for "heavy" units (none IS, ISU, KV will arrive - too few fuel).

Which is exactly what I told ya about being verry agressive in start game to cut the fuel. But this works against weaker opponents in general. If the opponent knows how to stop you from taking his fuel, then I would like to see what will you do against heavy tanks or even medium tanks with that doctrine. Mechanized Assault has one chance: to own startgame in such manner that soviet won't come back any time soon.
Further I'm surprised no one countered you effectively with: clown car (even 2 working together) with flamers inside (AG have no AT capabilities whatsoever); maxim/mortar spam; penal/sniper combo. These counters work perfectly in the hands of a middle/decent player and will make you throw quickly that super-doctrine at garbage.

Which is exactly what I told ya about being verry agressive in start game to cut the fuel. But this works against weaker opponents in general. If the opponent knows how to stop you from taking his fuel, then I would like to see what will you do against heavy tanks or even medium tanks with that doctrine. Mechanized Assault has one chance: to own startgame in such manner that soviet won't come back any time soon.
Further I'm surprised no one countered you effectively with: clown car (even 2 working together) with flamers inside (AG have no AT capabilities whatsoever); maxim/mortar spam; penal/sniper combo. These counters work perfectly in the hands of a middle/decent player and will make you throw quickly that super-doctrine at garbage.

Upgrade pgrens with schrecks, put them in 250 and none M3 will surprise.

Btw I'm surprised too cause I'm not 1v1 player
____________
About heavy veh.. Just faced guy with 2 ISUs. Well, I lost but still brought down one ISU...

Just wait till you play against Soviet players with actual micro. You will find that assault grens are the least attractive German infantry. Assault grens devastate anyone who cannot micro well because you almost always will be able to close the distance easily and thus slaughter them.

The assault grens are not what make the doctrine so good. It's the fact that you can get the STUGIII-E at 6cp without having to tech and a Tiger at 11cp without having to tech. It's a super easy doctrine to win with at the moment.

i must say the patch atm is quite good, ok there are some changes i dont like that are:

the pio change, would have loved an cost increase more making them more an combat infantry and maybe add a unitlimit to prevent spam (would also fit more the RL pioneers and it would fit their MP40s)

and ofc the pgren "midrange" unit nerf, playing germans i mostly need something for attack not to protect a unit that already protects itself very good with an LMG and does not get outperformed in AI by said unit in the same role with another upgrade (g43)

but aside that I find it mostly balanced accept a few things

first Sowjets:

Sniper personally i find them hard to kill they often survive enemy fire thanks to the 2 man squad (afterall even if your units land a lucky crit they will be able to retreat) while doing a lot of damage to german infantry if you have 2 they will be paying there price back rather fast on most maps so i think cut them down to 1 man squads so they get as vulnerable as the german one woukd be better

now to the germans:

MG42: well needs a bit more mobility for me atm its not worth the risk to lose it to the sowjets in my opinion, afterall with 6 man you cant dispatch it as easy as the sowjets do with molotov (retreat, firey death or enemy behind you^^)

Sniper: well its not worth its cost need too much attention for too less results and only gets decent when he gets his explosive ammo which is an art if you see how fast it can die to bad luck (or retreat pathing)

Tigerace: well here i think they should nerf it rear armor, i had a game where i pushed back the german player with T-34 then he called the Tigerace and did the same stuff he did with his Panthers, rushing them in and letting them be shot in the rear and die a pretty useless death but instead of a fast dying lonely Ace this guy ignored the hits of 3 T-34 with only 1 Damaging penetration (2 of the T-34 were in his back while one was the bait and i repeat the Ace was alone no support) end result was that the game that i just had the upper hand was lost cause one unit ignored all skill in flanking and erdicated my army alone (well ok was minsk so it was even easier for the ace but still i microed my t-34 like hell to stay in its back and they just got 1 damaging hit, pretty frustrating considering it were quite a lot hits in his rear armor)

Stug IIIG: well i did like the old version more in this patch i must say its too random, i cant really begin to like it before it was for me an AT gun on tracks now its a I can do anything and nothing together unit

first its Anti infatry: sometimes i does kill dozens of enemy other times the gunner is drunk and he cant hit an elephant on 1mm distance,
here i must draw the comparsion of it against the Flackpanzer which is reliable AI and AA against random effective cheap unit and if i really need AI i must say the Flack will always do this job better (i have the feeling the E stug also outperforms the Stug in this role)

then AT: same as Anti infatry sometimes it kills tanks quite ok sometimes it always bounces or misses (fun seeing an T70 driving straight at it and not getting hit^^) so again i have to consider what i want i can get an P4 which is an all purpose Tank and gets the job done or a cheap random unit which is outclassed by an even cheaper AT gun which may get oneshoted by T-34 but still gets its job properly done (and actually with bad luck the stug will also die fast to the T-34 without doing damage) and here again i rather take P4 and Pak

so i personally dont see a role of the stug for me old stug like said had its role this one doesnt for that i seems too random,

and now to some things of Both sides:

ISU, Elefant: i personaly dislike this units due to their focust sights it makes them a bit easy to us and hard to flank i think especially ELefant and ISU should not have them afterall Elefant locks down an area for any Tank and ISu locks down an area for everthing while both on 1vs1 maps can see half the map sometimes even everything to the enemy base its partly ok on the Su85 thanks to the new T-34 which in the right hands will be more effective but still the sight spoting you can do is impressive i think elefant and ISU should not have this ability that will make them more balanced they will still be killers but now you wont have it that easy to protect em or lock down areas

Unit AI: still a problem i think when you order a unit to move to this point they should stay their and if you order them to attack or an enemy gets in fire range they should not try to charge em (funny when you have cons on midrange firing at assault grens and then the begin to move in very funny.. for the Agrens, same goes for Grenadiers they should not try to attack conscripts penals or whatever with their Bayonett

Con spam > Gren spam. It has returned in full force. Though it is not as potent as it was before, especially with the old PPsH, it can still do waves of dmg especially when cons are grouped together. Soviet mines are capable of wiping full health gren squads on occasion and while they retreat. Soviet Armor is More AI then AT overall. Maxims while weak, are still effective with good micro(which I'm fine with) because it can be countered by your average german mortar. Shocks are very effective at close range, so as a German player you must always keep your distance. Soviet snipers are trollolo, especially with guards, but still counterable....as long as you don't mess up or get boned by RNG. ISU is a Gren's worst nightmare. Nerfs are not needed, but changes to the way certain vehicles, abilities, weapons work are needed.

QFT

Con spam > Gren spam. It has returned in full force.

Because now being in green cover doesn't mean as much as it did in previous patch, due to the weapons profile changes I guess. So yeah, Con spam > Gren spam now, shock troops rule unchallanged the infantry battles again no matter how they are attacking, everything is back as it was and the tactical feeling is severely reduced.

Need a patch asap itss getting ridiculous. Soviet infantry simply dominate and hve a very diverse selection.

Need a patch asap itss getting ridiculous. Soviet infantry simply dominate and hve a very diverse selection.

You could use a very diverse selection of L2P to overcome that.
Days of your G43 gren spam are over, either go by your word and gtfo if you uninstalled or start playing and stop whining like a sissy. Early game was never more balanced.