Honest opinions about Balance - Soviet adv

HI all,

This is my first post on COH.org forums as i normally stick to the official forums.

I came on here to express my thoughts about the current status of balance. To make it simple will convey this in a point format:

- Soviet 6 man squads give far greater survivability especially with scripts and grens being quite equal now. DOnt believe any very minor, if any advantage grens have compensate at all. German squads get vaporized by mines while soviet squads can restock and return to the field. This also applies to tank shells vaporising german squads. I cannot see why grens and scripts have the same armor. (I will not get into historical accuracy as this is about game balance, i know germany had generally superior equipment and training to the soviets)

- Germans have no heavy infantry now.... I think PGs armour nerf was not needed at all. Soviets have a plethora of options in terms of different infantry and now germans are somewhat lacking in this department.

- Soviet armor too powerful vs infantry. T-34/76 also received to much of a buff compared to PIV

- now with soviet armor getting buffs in pretty much every department i think self repair is something that gives soviets an unfair advantage of germans due to the greater survivability now of soviet tanks

- Why were german tier upgrades increased in price. No need at all. This has effectively made elite troops useless (i personally dont use that commander much) due to the need to put into up tiering.

- Blitz now useless.

- Soviet sniper needs to be reduced to a 1 man team and made equal more or less to german sniper. The penals+scout+sniper combo is breaking the game. Completely and utterly.

- Button spam

- ISU-152 squad wipe/anti armor capacity

- Soviet armor buff has effectively made T-34/85 call in far too advantageous

- German armor does not hold a significant enough advantage to balance soviet armour attrition rates

- Mines...

Conclusion:

The fact of the matter is soviet units are generally allow greater flexibility, survivability and dynamic abilities to change the outcome of the game and win the war of attrition. There are current combo exploits that can be used by soviets to gain to much of an advantage.

Germany very minor damage advantage is currently not enough to negate this particularly at earlier tiers. In simple terms, Germany was too heavily nerfed and soviets were too heavily buffed. This has unfortunately tipped the balance in the wrong way IMO.

my 2c

Cheers

Are you not the same guy that is always crying about how op the soviets are?

Are you not the same guy that is always crying about how op the soviets are?

No. I believe there are 2 or 3 trolls on that forum on both sides of the spectrum.

I think germans got too used to their advantages, and now, on more equal footing, its soviet OP.

I think germans got too used to their advantages, and now, on more equal footing, its soviet OP.

I had no qualms about buffing soviets to a degree. But i think they went too far especially with infantry and armor considering soviet abilities. They did not factor this in.

What killed everything was the german nerfs and cost increases. This tipped the balance too far IMO and slight over buffs in some cases for soviets...

I think once people start playing Ostheer like they played Wehr in VCoh: keep grens around an mg and focus fire flanking squads, opinions might change. Having higher long-range DPS means its important to have troops together so you can force individual squads off the field quickly. 1v1 infantry battles now favor conscripts on many maps.

Everyone still tries to play the whole map with 4-5 grens all spread out and I don't think that's viable anymore, however in a full-scale engagement I don't think germans have a problem forcing off conscripts.

Not that I'm pretending to be anything like a top-tier player, but since the last patch I've been on a pretty big loss spree. Something like 8 losses broken up by 2 wins. In case it counts, I'm a 2v2er almost exclusively and have an arranged partner.

It's hard to "l2adapt" when you only have time to play maybe 5-7 games on any given patch due to life commitments. It's pretty demoralizing when you hit the forums after a loss streak and everybody is whining about how overpowered your faction is which has happened several times since this game came out

I think germans got too used to their advantages, and now, on more equal footing, its soviet OP.

I am still seeing people spamming 5 grenadier squads or 5 panzerschreck squads, and of course losing, both on my team and on the enemy team. Just because some tactics don't work anymore doesn't mean the faction sucks... meanwhile, I, using combined arms, fare better than spamming one type of unit and wasting munitions.

I am still seeing people spamming 5 grenadier squads or 5 panzerschreck squads, and of course losing, both on my team and on the enemy team. Just because some tactics don't work anymore doesn't mean the faction sucks... meanwhile, I, using combined arms, fare better than spamming one type of unit and wasting munitions.

Completely agree. But if you put two reasonably brained players in the mix. Soviets hold the advantage. You only have to watch the streams to see soviet pro's now completely steam rolling games

Does Relic release game statistics? I'd be interested to see what the WLR looks like for the factions in each mode right now.

Are you not the same guy that is always crying about how op the soviets are?

He is.

Thing is, so far he cried only on official forums.

His base definition of balanced game is german supremacy.

@ThoseDeaf
Read this:

We are seeing ELO ratings adjust from the previous patch. As others have noted, the March Deployment resulted in the inflation of German ELO ratings. Many German players are now playing outside of their true ELO rating resulting in more loses than before.

Which means unless germans will drop down to their own elo level after abusing last patch complete dominance, they will keep loosing.

unless germans will drop down to their own elo level after abusing last patch complete dominance, they will keep loosing.

This.

Not as good as they thought they were, some players are.

@ThoseDeaf
Read this:


Which means unless germans will drop down to their own elo level after abusing last patch complete dominance, they will keep loosing.

We weren't "abusing last patch", though. We didn't even play 5 games on it. It may be true that some Russian players had their ratings depressed or something.

We weren't "abusing last patch", though. We didn't even play 5 games on it. It may be true that some Russian players had their ratings depressed or something.

Ohh there was abuse.
Hell, I started 1v1 last patch only to prove the point of how extremely easy it was and I did.
I gave a long game to jesulin only because of bad balance we had.

Now I'm slowly dropping with my germans to where I should be.
Me and ~70% of the playerbase who plays exclusively germans as well.

Difference is, I'm not bitching bad balance, because I know I went so high because of bad balance and now the balance is equal its suddenly "bad balance" or "soviet advantage" for braindeads who can't accept the truth they they are not as great players as they think they are.

I'm not talking "you" as you, personally. I'm talking "you" as the people who complain about the balance being in soviet advantage when every single top player will tell you that germans are the ones with advantages now despite balance being quite good on all game stages.

HI all,

This is my first post on COH.org forums as i normally stick to the official forums.

I came on here to express my thoughts about the current status of balance. To make it simple will convey this in a point format:

- Soviet 6 man squads give far greater survivability especially with scripts and grens being quite equal now. DOnt believe any very minor, if any advantage grens have compensate at all. German squads get vaporized by mines while soviet squads can restock and return to the field. This also applies to tank shells vaporising german squads. I cannot see why grens and scripts have the same armor. (I will not get into historical accuracy as this is about game balance, i know germany had generally superior equipment and training to the soviets)

- Germans have no heavy infantry now.... I think PGs armour nerf was not needed at all. Soviets have a plethora of options in terms of different infantry and now germans are somewhat lacking in this department.

- Soviet armor too powerful vs infantry. T-34/76 also received to much of a buff compared to PIV

- now with soviet armor getting buffs in pretty much every department i think self repair is something that gives soviets an unfair advantage of germans due to the greater survivability now of soviet tanks

- Why were german tier upgrades increased in price. No need at all. This has effectively made elite troops useless (i personally dont use that commander much) due to the need to put into up tiering.

- Blitz now useless.

- Soviet sniper needs to be reduced to a 1 man team and made equal more or less to german sniper. The penals+scout+sniper combo is breaking the game. Completely and utterly.

- Button spam

- ISU-152 squad wipe/anti armor capacity

- Soviet armor buff has effectively made T-34/85 call in far too advantageous

- German armor does not hold a significant enough advantage to balance soviet armour attrition rates

- Mines...

Conclusion:

The fact of the matter is soviet units are generally allow greater flexibility, survivability and dynamic abilities to change the outcome of the game and win the war of attrition. There are current combo exploits that can be used by soviets to gain to much of an advantage.

Germany very minor damage advantage is currently not enough to negate this particularly at earlier tiers. In simple terms, Germany was too heavily nerfed and soviets were too heavily buffed. This has unfortunately tipped the balance in the wrong way IMO.

my 2c

Cheers

I feel like this post comes from a bias perspective but at-least you wrote a serious post rather then a **** post like do here. Anyways,


As for the 6 man squads. I see where you're coming from but that's the main difference between the two factions. One of them is stronger at offense while the other is stronger at defense. It's what causes different flavors into the mix. Also, lets say we make cons 4 man squads or grens 6 man squads and gave them absolute same dps. Then engagements will based on solely on RNG, and RNG is already killing this game.

Yes Cons do have more initially survivibility than Grens, however, vetted Grens will scale better late game than Cons. This is because of Vetereancy and the the LMG42. You also have to consider that Grens don't have to research Fausts.

As for squad wipes, that's because of Poor AI and the explosive change. That will be addressed next patch by PQ.

I somewhat agree, Pgrens need their armor back at 1.2, but shocks troops should be ultimately better than them.

They buffed the t34's AT because the thing was useless against armor. It's a 15 fuel difference between the p4, yet the p4 can still beat it. As well, a P4 that's upgunned with a mg42 can kill infantry more effectively than a t34.

Self-Repair is doctrinal and to be honest, I rather have panzer tactician than the self repair. It's fine.

Soviet Tiers cost more also. They did this to fix teching in the game. Tanks used to come out way too early.

Blitz needs a price reduction, soviet and german snipers should be identical when it comes to stats, which means one man squads. Let them keep their different vet.

Button really isn't that bad, DP28s initially cost 75 munitions and plus another 40. That's almost a price for a Pshreck.

ISU-152 shouldn't squad wipe like that, Im pretty sure it was unintentional also. The 85s are a waste, a good player uses 76 instead since they are more cost effective. German tanks can't prevent Soviet attrition? You serious? Use Stugs and t3, stugs are overpowered at the moment and going t4 is useless since Panthers arent worth the price. I rather save my fuel and get a p4 and stug rather then waiting for t4 and getting a panther.

The real concerns should be fixing squad wiping problem, redesign mines, reduce anti-infantry effectiveness with the ISU-152 and make the concrete round useful, less rng when it comes to infantry and armor engagements that's killing the competitive scene, MG42 needs to aim faster (not traverse), get rid of molotovs and replace it with some other nade (Molotovs are too rng dependent which is bad), get rid of precision strike with 120mm mortar only, only restrict users to have one heavy tank out on the field, reduce aim time with PTRS and PShrecks but increase reload times, and make German T4 relevant again.

A lot of people are expecting that their tactics will work again but they wont. It's because the Germans were nerfed since they were overpowered. Let me say the same crap that the bandwagon circlej*** have been saying: adapt. Learn to use MG42s and kite scout cars to prevent Script spam. Learn to get sweepers for now. Learn to use stugs and p4 since it's superior than t4. Germans aren't bad, it's just majority of people been used to using an easy faction.

Ok, let me tell you something about balance.
Let's start from beggining.
Cons/Penals vs Grens.
Grens have grenade and faust for free (just jump to T1 for grenade).
Cons need upragde witch costs fuel!!
Penals have very powerful grenade but only noob player won't handle to run.
Grens have much better weapon than Penals and Cons. They can be upgraded with MG without doctrine.
Cons can get PPSH only from commander.
Penals can get flame.
What's the point? PPSH and falme work only in close-range. By the time they get close, MG will wipe them out.
T1,T2 vs T1
In 1v1 I go only for T2. Guys who lost with me call me MG noob (I don't think 3MGs is MGs spam) but what else I can do? Bring mortar od AT guns against grens? Or maybe cons (I don't like them) and see how they get ripped by MG? I would be very glad if I could get in T2 some nice inf with MG and AT gun as Germans.
Now we need to choose do we want MG, AT and mortar or go for clown and sniper (which push us for fast t34 cause we don't get any AT power).
Shocks vs Assault
Shock may be better but it's assault grens who enter battlefield at 0CP. Give us 0CP shock or Guards and we are fine.
Guards vs PGrens
First one doctrinal. If we won't choose them then we are left with very powerful AT nades (btw faust is free and almost always make engined damaged (even on heavy tanks), AT nades have to be bought and often it even make no dmg on Pz4...)
Without DP28 they are really shit. With they are medium long-range inf. 75uprade + 40 for blind ability. Their dmg to vehicles is a joke so the only use for them is to stick them close to t34/SU and blind every vehicles. PGrens are not doctrinal. Not bad vs inf and awesome vs tanks. They can bring down SU easliy. Hmmm wonder how Guards can destroy Stug or Pz4...
AI tanks
Best soviet AI tanks? ISU-152 and IS2. I can bring them whenever I want! Oh, wait... Those are doctrinal opposite to Brrumbar...
AT tanks/assault guns
T34 is still worst than Pz4 so don' cry.
Su-85? Quite good but need some backup to prevent flanking. That's all we have. What Germans have? Pz4. Great middle game units. Panther - unit which can be used in very late game against everything so in fact you don't need to choose commander with Tiger.
Soviets need to choose commander with (MEDIUM!! THIS SHOULDN'T BE DOCTRICNAL. LET'S MAKE PANTHER A DOCTRINAL UNIT ALSO!!!) T34/85, IS2, KV-2 or ISU-152. If you think that game can take some time you need those commander to counter Tiger or Panther. Germans can easlity counter IS2 by Panther so you're not bind to doctrin with Tiger.

Button is doctrinal so don't cry and use doctrinal counter (Pssst... it's a smoke if you don't know).
No heavy inf... For god sake... Give our guards schrecks!!
As I said, PZ4 is still best medium-game unit.
Yea, soviets tanks have great survability... Check some SU-85 or T34.
Elite troops useless? Dude... I beg you... Check this forum and you will see many threads about how this commander is OP...
Useless? Al right... I get it. It was just to "click" and attack from behind SUs and ZiSs.
Reduce sniper to 1? Ok but give me MG and AT gun in the same tier.
ISU-152 should be a beast ad deal with it. It's doctrinal unit so you have to counter it by other doctrinal abilities.
"enough advantage" - key words. There shouldn't be any adv! Faction should be equal.
Mines - sweepers. (Germans also can put mines)

Some of you may not agree with me but after 420h played by both factions I see some big
disproportion between soviets and nazis.

PS
I know it's a looong post and most of you will just skip it

Ohh there was abuse.

That's nice, it doesn't explain why I might be inexplicably ranked outrageously high to the point where this patch I've actually already lost more than I played (in total) last patch. Unless the game has been outrageously German favored since the launch of the game it wouldn't make sense, because I would have already dropped down and should be fighting "total noobs" which is what I clearly must be right now.

Difference is, I'm not bitching bad balance, because I know I went so high because of bad balance and now the balance is equal its suddenly "bad balance" or "soviet advantage" for braindeads who can't accept the truth they they are not as great players as they think they are.

I'm not talking "you" as you, personally. I'm talking "you" as the people who complain about the balance being in soviet advantage when every single top player will tell you that germans are the ones with advantages now despite balance being quite good on all game stages.

Kat, you bitch about bad balance in just about every thread on this forum, and the official forums too. The only time you're talking about things being well balanced is when somebody else is saying it's unbalanced in favor of the Soviet faction, at which point in time the Katitof signal lights up in the sky and you swoop in to tell people they need to l2play. In fact it seems that you registered your CoH2.org account just so you could argue that 1CP shocks were fine. At any rate, you're now expecting us to believe that not only are the Soviets not overpowered, but actually the Germans are overpowered in the current patch. I'm going to try to avoid actually slinging insults at you, but suffice it to say that the next patch Relic puts out will reflect that this is not really true.

Guys please dont Hijack this thread.

Anyhow. I believe balance is close now.

Just needs a few tweaks to bring Germany up to scratch and then its happy days.

Guys please dont Hijack this thread.

Anyhow. I believe balance is close now.

Just needs a few tweaks to bring Germany up to scratch and then its happy days.

This game cannot be balanced. And even if it was, there will still be people saying it isn't. The best thing we can hope is that the Unbalance will not be so obvious.

This game cannot be balanced. And even if it was, there will still be people saying it isn't.

The best indicator of balance is when you have the same amount of imba criers in both factions.