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russian armor

Pumas and Target Weak Point

28 Apr 2014, 12:14 PM
#61
avatar of Burts

Posts: 1702

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2014, 12:09 PMtokarev


You know, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that you never played land lease commander.
You just like trolling without even a single valid point.



haha, dude SSheini was the guy that told us that the game was almost perfectly balanced back when march deployment patch came out.

Previously, he played 2 games as soviets and stated "it's too easy" and never played as soviets again.
28 Apr 2014, 12:51 PM
#62
avatar of tokarev

Posts: 307

Yeah, I remember this guy. I swore to myself not to pay attention to posts of this nazi fanboy, I don't understand why I waste my time reading them.
28 Apr 2014, 13:05 PM
#63
avatar of AvNY

Posts: 862

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2014, 11:40 AMQubix


1.why is cost irrelevant ?
2.I don't care if it's an AC in real life (i don't find killing machines aka weapons as fascinating as most people in this forum so i don't know anything detailed about this unit). INGAME it costs more than a t70 and as you said the t70 is a light tank so the puma should also be classified as a tank and not an armored car.


1. Costs are always releveant. Farther up in the thread someone stated that it was OK that the Sherman is more expensive since it is a call in. But then the Puma is compared in cost to a T70 even though it too is a call in and doesn't require tech.

2. True that what they are called is less relevant than how they are used. As people get more comfortable with uses they will start to see the units for their use as opposed to their look.

Much of the look/ability of German kit is to please the multitudes of German army fans out there. That is why so many units show up in games even though they never appeared in anything but token numbers show up in WW2 games. Just get used to it as you have to live with it.

(Only 40 Ostwinds were ever made, 60 Elephants, 100 Pumas with the 50mm and 200 with the 20mm. As opposed to allied units you never see which were produced in the thousands, like the m10 Achilles, m36 Jacksons, and artillery out the wazoo. "Out the wazoo I tell you!")
28 Apr 2014, 13:26 PM
#64
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 807

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2014, 12:51 PMtokarev
Yeah, I remember this guy. I swore to myself not to pay attention to posts of this nazi fanboy, I don't understand why I waste my time reading them.


Malicious soviet fanboy posts....Keep it comming boys it's not the best you can do.:nahnah:
28 Apr 2014, 13:29 PM
#65
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 807

When speaking about shermans, I hate it and love it in the same time. Hate it while playing germans, love it when playing soviets.
28 Apr 2014, 13:43 PM
#66
avatar of MarcoRossolini

Posts: 1042

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2014, 13:05 PMAvNY




(Only 40 Ostwinds were ever made, 60 Elephants, 100 Pumas with the 50mm and 200 with the 20mm. As opposed to allied units you never see which were produced in the thousands, like the m10 Achilles, m36 Jacksons, and artillery out the wazoo. "Out the wazoo I tell you!")


Indeed, if the German doctrinal units conformed with Soviet doctrinal units, then they'd only have the StuG and the Panzer IV.
28 Apr 2014, 13:50 PM
#67
avatar of Volsky

Posts: 344

The Sherman is funner than a box of kittens, as we'd say here in the U.S. At least, when you're using it. I've seen them rack up quite the kill count even when not spammed. Iirc even the M4A3 with the new engine was slightly slower than a T-34 (in game they're equally fast).

The T-34/85 and M4A3E8 were pretty much equally matched in reality, the crew made the difference (see: the Korean war).
28 Apr 2014, 14:14 PM
#68
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637

When speaking about shermans, I hate it and love it in the same time. Hate it while playing germans, love it when playing soviets.
28 Apr 2014, 18:44 PM
#69
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2014, 11:40 AMQubix


1.why is cost irrelevant ?
2.I don't care if it's an AC in real life (i don't find killing machines aka weapons as fascinating as most people in this forum so i don't know anything detailed about this unit). INGAME it costs more than a t70 and as you said the t70 is a light tank so the puma should also be classified as a tank and not an armored car.


Cost is "irrelevant" in the sense that because a unit cause X MP and Y fuel you can´t expect it to perform better or not than other units of similar price. It gives you a different tool/opportunity of use.

I don´t mind if the PUMA is going to stay as it is. I just found it a bit counterintuitive for what it is, that´s all.
In my mind previously to use it several times, i expect it to be a support mobile AT which should had problems with heavier tanks. That´s not what i´m seeing. Maybe it´s penetration it´s bugged, time will tell.
28 Apr 2014, 22:47 PM
#70
avatar of Ossy

Posts: 42

Use AT guns against the Puma, vehicles are not hard counters. AT guns are. Let us know how this works out.


Even if tanks are not the hard counter to the puma they should act as a soft counter to it. the Puma should be able to beat the M3 and the T70 but not medium tanks with such ease.

Also the veteran ability is too good for the Puma.
29 Apr 2014, 18:22 PM
#71
avatar of OrionHunter88

Posts: 141

To be honest, and maybe I just haven't experienced true puma spam yet, I have a sigh of relief because I know that he's not building panthers saving up for tigers, and I wont have to do battle with an elephant.

Pumas are weak sauce compared to the rest of the german tank army IMHO.

A good, diverse, AT game (Mines/AT nade cons/Zis gun and or guards and or T34 and or SU 85 and or Call-in tanks) combo is what you need anyway vs Panzer 4, Tiger, Panther, Elephant. Puma is easier to take out than any of those.
13 May 2014, 09:13 AM
#72
avatar of Brick Top

Posts: 1162

This is fking retarded. Puma is not right at all.


It just dances around far too easy with a pak stuck to the top of it and any time you outmanouver them, bam target weak point and they swarm your one tank them disappear into the map just as quickly.

There is no tank the soviets have that can face them in equal numbers and having ZiS back up does not help that much. They are just too manouverable. It makes things far too easy.

Either they NEED target weak point removing, or their penetration lowering a bit so that heavy tanks are actually useful frontally vs them.

Dont forget soviets have weak infantry AT, make a unit which dances in circles around any soviet armour is not good.
13 May 2014, 09:18 AM
#73
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

Something tells me this will be exactly how american TDs will work.

Also, puma have 100-160 pen depending on range.
13 May 2014, 09:21 AM
#74
avatar of Kreatiir

Posts: 2819

jump backJump back to quoted post13 May 2014, 09:18 AMKatitof
Something tells me this will be exactly how american TDs will work.


13 May 2014, 09:28 AM
#75
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 807

Yes, please nerf Pumas and throw to the basket the only thing which someone would pick that stupid doctrine for.
13 May 2014, 09:34 AM
#76
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

^You never rolled tripple vet LMG osttruppen, am I right?
I have uploaded a rep with that recently :P
13 May 2014, 10:04 AM
#77
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2

This is fking retarded. Puma is not right at all.


It just dances around far too easy with a pak stuck to the top of it and any time you outmanouver them, bam target weak point and they swarm your one tank them disappear into the map just as quickly.

There is no tank the soviets have that can face them in equal numbers and having ZiS back up does not help that much. They are just too manouverable. It makes things far too easy.

Either they NEED target weak point removing, or their penetration lowering a bit so that heavy tanks are actually useful frontally vs them.

Dont forget soviets have weak infantry AT, make a unit which dances in circles around any soviet armour is not good.



i heard that it has small target box, and i think that is why my t34 miss them so many god damn times, which is B~~~~~~S~~~~~~~~. correct me if im wrong.
13 May 2014, 10:12 AM
#78
avatar of Brick Top

Posts: 1162

Yeah in this replay of Barton's, ZiS, T34's and SU85 all constantly miss them:

http://www.coh2.org/replay/16954/beating-puma-spam/page/1


I dont think pumas are far from being balanced, they are just a little bit too good, its far too easy to invalidate T34/85s or IS2s.. target weak point and easily penetrating from the front is just insane. I would be fine if they had to flank to penetrate more reliably, or if they just didnt have target weak point.

Im going to be playing a lot with puma spam find the best counters, but I fully expect a lot of abuse from my opponents.
13 May 2014, 10:19 AM
#79
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 807

jump backJump back to quoted post13 May 2014, 09:34 AMKatitof
^You never rolled tripple vet LMG osttruppen, am I right?
I have uploaded a rep with that recently :P


The chance to get one vet 3 osttruppen squad with lmg is as big as the chance to be hit by a meteorite. And let's say you get one. It is still crap infantry.
13 May 2014, 14:14 PM
#80
avatar of vietnamabc

Posts: 1063

In team game, some one needs to build at least 3 M-42 45mm ATG just to deal with these guys. In 1v1, pray he hit a mine or there's not much you can do against a decent micro puma. Puma + Ostwind = crazy
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