Is Relic using some Formulas for units statistics?

I was curious, how Relic balance devs are planning their unit balance balance? We see new patches with big changes, and people must get use to them, that's what probably most of us dislikes. Best way, in my opinio to get game balanced is to create some formulas on units (mostly tanks and vehicles) statistics, for examples:

real Tank weight = Tank HP (also modifiers depending on Tank class)
Gun caliber = Tank damage (higher the better obviously)
real Tank reloading = same as in real but reduced by for example 25%
muzzle velocity = penetration, also depending on range
real tank rotating, turret rotating = same as in real but rotates faster by like 25%
Tank firing range = let's say 500m in real is 5 range in game (higher values for weapon support guns)
Fuel combustion = Fuel cost
Tank armour = take real values * 1,5 * armour angle


Now let's take a look how tank stats look in game, let's take Tiger, IS-2, Stug, T34


Stug:
HP:400
Armor (front/rear):140/70
Manpower-Fuel cost: 230/80
Reload: 3,5-4,5
penetration(on min range):130
damage:160

Tiger
HP:1280
Armor (front/rear):300/180
Manpower-Fuel cost: 640/230
Reload: 4,7-5,3
penetration(on min range):220
damage:160

IS-2
HP:960
Armor (front/rear):340/205
Manpower-Fuel cost: 640/230
Reload: 6,2-6,6
penetration(on min range):250
damage:160

T34
HP:640
Armor (front/rear):150/75
Manpower-Fuel cost: 310/100
Reload: 6,2-6,8
penetration(on min range):120
damage:160


Conclusions:
- Stug and T34 had similar gun calibers so same damage inflicted is ok, but i disagree that Tiger and IS-2 should deal same damage as Stug and T34, that illogical
- I dont have exact informations about gun reloads on those tanks but I doubt that IS-2 had same reload as T34 and slightly higher than Tiger
- 26,5 tone T34 have 240 HP more than 24 tone Stug.
- 52mm T34 has more armor and 80mm Stug, 160mm IS-2 vs 120mm Tiger, in game difference between those two tank armour is only 40, also, their rear armour isn't too big like 205 and 180?

Of course I could give more examples but it would take many hours to do that.

I'd like to know from Relic devs, are you guys using some formulas for unit stats or they are more less random?

Discuss.

Like Relic is going to answer this..

In case you didn´t notice: For balance every German tank was tuned down and every Russian tank was buffed.

Panthers get penetrated on a standard basis frontally by 85mm guns while KVs from 1941 deflect 75mm guns. ISU-152 and IS-2 fire as fast as Elefants. Su-85 having more range than their German counterpart. And so on...

In the last patch they overdid this with StuGs dieing like flies not even deflecting 76mm rounds frontally.

To answer your question: The statistics of the vehicles are totally random and made up. Don´t expect any consistency there - it´s pretty much double standard.

I for one don't care as long as we get a balanced game after all.

Thou it really makes little sense for IS-2 to be as it is. Oh well.

http://pqumsieh.com/2014/01/27/means-of-balance/

edit: the formulas we use for tanks are a bit more complex, but this should give you a small looking into the inner workings. We never rely on these numbers, they are merely there to guide our design and establish a baseline.

http://pqumsieh.com/2014/01/27/means-of-balance/

edit: the formulas we use for tanks are a bit more complex, but this should give you a small looking into the inner workings. We never rely on these numbers, they are merely there to guide our design and establish a baseline.

You have your own website? Didn't expect that.

Atleast before the last patch some armor stats seemed to be based on real life armor:

Stug frontal armor 80 x 2 = 160 armor ingame,
Panzer IV frontal armor 80 x 2 = 160 armor ingame,
Elefant frontal armor 200 x 2 = 400 armor ingame.

Silly thing is the Stug now has lower HP and armor even tho it had a lower profile and did not how a turrent, (which has less thick armor).

http://pqumsieh.com/2014/01/27/means-of-balance/

edit: the formulas we use for tanks are a bit more complex, but this should give you a small looking into the inner workings. We never rely on these numbers, they are merely there to guide our design and establish a baseline.

+1

I think the system right now is mostly based around usability and ease of understanding.
There tend to be only a few ranges (40, 50, 60, 100) for tank fights.
Damage is a multiple of 80, in most cases 160. Vice versa, this also applies to the HP (320, 480, 640, 800, ...) so that there is not much 'overkill' or damage wasted.
Armor values are mostly for balance reasons, but they seem to at least try to stick with historical values.

Like Relic is going to answer this..

Lmao, Relic answered him, eat your words XD

only because he called out PQ.

the key is use word of "relic", then you will summon one of them, like here the relic was in the title

A dev is never summoned, nor is he unsummoned, he arrives precisely when he means to.

A dev is never summoned, nor is he unsummoned, he arrives precisely when he means to.

Which lately translates to: When torch lights can be seen and pitchforks jingle

it meant to be a joke,but that is true if you say relic as topic title, it will help your case that one of the relic member will check it

http://pqumsieh.com/2014/01/27/means-of-balance/

edit: the formulas we use for tanks are a bit more complex, but this should give you a small looking into the inner workings. We never rely on these numbers, they are merely there to guide our design and establish a baseline.

Thanks for sharing with this, but I'd like to know something about your formulas to vehicle stats, some are really illogical, like 160 damage on IS-2 and T34

Are you asking why the T34 and IS-2 share the same damage value?

Are you asking why the T34 and IS-2 share the same damage value?

for example, yes, but there are more tanks/vehicles that stats values are not more less realistic.

If IS-2 share same damage as T34 because unit cost must be adequate to unit value, then why not just increase MP cost and increase damage on it?

A dev is never summoned, nor is he unsummoned, he arrives precisely when he means to.

Haha, similiar words I heard from Johan Andersson (Paradox) but they goes:
"A patch is never late! Nor is it ever early. It arrives precisely when I mean it to do"