Nerf german mass panther rush

The admission that there were other modes than 1 v 1 and those concerns might be valid just tickled me. It sort of sums up a lot of this forum, which is a tiny group of people having a massive amount of influence on a game played by many thousands of others.

It appears you are only allowed to have a valid opinion if:

1) You are ranked in the Top Arbitarily Small Number

2) You play both factions

3) You only play 1v1


Having paid money for the product is not sufficient

It appears you are only allowed to have a valid opinion if:

2) You play both factions

Having paid money for the product is not sufficient

That to be honest is valid. If you only play one faction, how can you comment on how the other performs without even playing them? It is only one side of the story.

That to be honest is valid. If you only play one faction, how can you comment on how the other performs without even playing them? It is only one side of the story.

Exactly. For instance playing Germans even once can teach you that you do not place an MG42 somewhere and "forget it".

Exactly. For instance playing Germans even once can teach you that you do not place an MG42 somewhere and "forget it".

Reading a sentence properly teaches you not be an ass You missed that lesson though

my advice is that you spam t34s and ram those panthers. 2 lost t34s is not such big of a deal for soviets as it is for germans if they lose 1 panther.

This only works if you're lucky with ram and axis is a totally noob. Panthers need a fix yes or yes.

my advice is that you spam t34s and ram those panthers. 2 lost t34s is not such big of a deal for soviets as it is for germans if they lose 1 panther.

Actually 2x T-34/76 (560mp 170fu) for one panther (520mp 140fu)is a trade where the german player comes out on top and currently a panther can take out two T-34/76s without much trouble if ram is not used or ram fails.

It appears you are only allowed to have a valid opinion if:

1) You are ranked in the Top Arbitarily Small Number

2) You play both factions

3) You only play 1v1


Having paid money for the product is not sufficient

Who would you prefer to take medical advice from?

a.) a random person off the street

b.) a friend of a friend who read a magazine once they think that sort of talked about what you're feeling

c.) a person who went to university majoring in medicine/biology

d.) a person who went to med school after university but dropped out

e.) a person who finished med school but was at the bottom of their class

f.) a person who finished med school at the top of their class

g.) a person who finished med school at the top of their class and has 5 years of real world practice


All opinions are not equally valid. Some are more valid than others and some are less valid than others. Some are simply bad.

Everyone in CoH2 will fall somewhere in those options above. Who would you listen to?

You forgot Google

Actually 2x T-34/76 (560mp 170fu) for one panther (520mp 140fu)is a trade where the german player comes out on top and currently a panther can take out two T-34/76s without much trouble if ram is not used or ram fails.

Yes ipkai thats true but somehow i rarely find soviets struggle for fuel(considering youre not outcapped). the point was that after its easier to replace t34s then panthers.

The admission that there were other modes than 1 v 1 and those concerns might be valid just tickled me. It sort of sums up a lot of this forum, which is a tiny group of people having a massive amount of influence on a game played by many thousands of others.

Except that the game can still be balanced for 1v1 and bigger game modes. Relic just needs to adjust the resource income based on the game mode (2v2, 3v3, 4v4, etc...) TBH I don't know why this hasn't been done yet. Does anyone have any feedback on why it wouldn't be feasible to simply make the resource income lower for larger team games?

Who would you prefer to take medical advice from?

a.) a random person off the street

b.) a friend of a friend who read a magazine once they think that sort of talked about what you're feeling

c.) a person who went to university majoring in medicine/biology

d.) a person who went to med school after university but dropped out

e.) a person who finished med school but was at the bottom of their class

f.) a person who finished med school at the top of their class

g.) a person who finished med school at the top of their class and has 5 years of real world practice


All opinions are not equally valid. Some are more valid than others and some are less valid than others. Some are simply bad.

Everyone in CoH2 will fall somewhere in those options above. Who would you listen to?

Not really an accurate comparison. This game is not designed to be played only by the super-elite players of the world. If any thing their influence on balance should be limited as the things they can do with units is way about average level.

Balance design should always revolved around the "everyday joe" first and foremost.

It appears you are only allowed to have a valid opinion if:

2) You play both factions

That's exactly right. In my experience, no person who plays one faction only has a clue when it comes to balance.

It's not because they're stupid or bad people, it's human psychology. If I play one faction for too long, there are elements about the other faction that seem OP or hard to deal with. This is normal and the only solution is to play the other faction and see how people counter you doing the same thing. Only in this way can you get a more or less balanced view of a unit's strengths and weaknesses.

Not really an accurate comparison. This game is not designed to be played only by the super-elite players of the world. If any thing their influence on balance should be limited as the things they can do with units is way about average level.

Balance design should always revolved around the "everyday joe" first and foremost.

Name one competitive game that balances based on the opinions and input of inexperienced players please. Game balance and game design are two different things.

Play both factions is about the only one of those I would agree with, but I have heard all 3 put foward at one time or another and if you take them all together that leaves a very small ammount of people whose opinion is suppossed to matter.

However as no one has chimed to defend the other two I will consider my point made.

The problem with team games is that the panther/tiger have massive HP pools. While this is, arguably, somewhat balanced for 1v1 it does not scale well with the available counters.

Other forum posts claim that soviets deserve to lose if they let Germany build multiple panthers. In reality it only takes the first panther/tiger from each player to start seeing these effects.

In a 3v3 or 4v4 the first set of panthers/tigers that roll out have already reached critical mass. 3-4 panthers are very fast, have large hp pools, can blitz, smoke, and do substantial infantry damage with their buffed hull MG's.

Zis AT guns break down in this scenario as a substantial number of Zis guns are needed to chew through the hp pool of multiple panthers. If you do have enough AT guns they are incredibly vulnerable to off-maps. Two AT guns may kill one engine-damaged panther in 1v1, but in 3v3/4v4 against 3-4 panthers the required 6-8 Zis guns are just instantly off-mapped by multiple players.

If T34's arrive they may get one initial ram off to a panther's front, but then will be unable to maneuver due to vehicle congestion. They are unable to damage panther/tigers and will get volley'ed as fast as they can arrive on the scene.

Multiple SU-85's can hold the panther tide back, but possess no ability to actually chase and finish off any panther's that probe and get damaged. Remember, target weak point and blitz are only for the ubermensch! Since Su-85's cannot actively diminish the panther ranks nor relocate in a reasonable amount of time, it is a losing proposition. Su-85's have no tools to punish and score panther kills; they will die once more panthers are built or they make any mistake. Any mistake at all, don't forget that the panther has blitz, smoke, high hp, and high penetration, all on one of the fastest tanks in the game. It is purpose built to kill SU-85's.

tl:dr

Nerf panther/tiger hull mg gun, reduce hp pool on panther/tiger, engine damage cancels blitzkrieg and/or temporary engine damage when blitz is completed.

German end game tanks need to be balanced via armor and armament, just like soviet tanks, massive HP pools simply don't scale.

Name one competitive game that balances based on the opinions and input of inexperienced players please. Game balance and game design are two different things.

Have you seen what Cataclaw does with his M3 Scout Cars? Most consider it UP or average, but he wins the early-game and sometimes the mid-game with just Scout Cars and Engies (Guards mid-game). If we balanced based only on what pro players could do, the M3 Scout Car would get a huge nerf in Mobility and/or HP.

Of course I stand still to make sure balance works and wait until T-34 manages to come behind my lines where my support of course does not wait! What else?

Oh, let me get this straight: you want a very very cheap tank to be able to ram a very very expensive one from front, no flanking effort no nothing, and have 100% chances to transform it into a drunk snail that will be killed one minute later, right? Well, I guess there is no need for another no-brainer usable unit, you allready have the KV-8, remember?

Oh, wait, the fanboy is so strong in me.... golum, golum...

OMG 4v4 so unbalanced just spam mass carrier and a move wtf

On a more serious note i am sure Panther will see some adjustments next patch. If i remember correctly PQumsieh wrote somewhere about the Vet 2 on Panther and some other shennanigans.

Panthers are no where as bad as they used to be. Back during the alpha and beta days, that crap had the hp as a tiger.

When not at vet 2, they arent hard at all to kill. Seriously, 2 su85s will do the job. Hell even one properly placed SU85 can kill a panther if you have mark target.

In a 3v3 or 4v4 the first set of panthers/tigers that roll out have already reached critical mass. 3-4 panthers are very fast, have large hp pools, can blitz, smoke, and do substantial infantry damage with their buffed hull MG's.



Nerf panther/tiger hull mg gun, reduce hp pool on panther/tiger, engine damage cancels blitzkrieg and/or temporary engine damage when blitz is completed.

As far as I know blitz requires vet 1 and is cancelled when the engine is damaged and smoke is doctrinal and costs 40 muni?!

It just sounds like you are mad because your opponents know how to use a Panther properly.

Cripple their engines and watch them die in a hail of 85mm shells.