Shreked PGrens... Balanced or no?

i think the problem is when you build them in mass. and is probably highlighted more so in this patch as tier 2 is very powerful for germans now. while tier 3 and 4 for svos is so hard to get to.

in previous patches ive heard you can kite them with m5 aa trucks really effectively .

M5 can until the Ostwind shows up. The T34 and T70 should be able to kite them better then they can currently. I am on travel currently. So I can't run any experiments. But last patch I could kill a Pgren squad with vanilla scripts faster on average than a T34 barring luck RNG. And that was without trying to kite. In team games now you deal with a pair of them. With two each burst takes 2/3 the health of a T34. And since T34s kill them so slow who wants to risk a tank to get maybe two entity kills. Honestly I need more T34s on the field to reliably deal with a pair if shrekd Pgrens then a single Panther and that to me is wrong.

What next is relic going to force players to rM Pgrens?

On 1v1 not so much, but on 2v2 they get really annoying if the game goes to late late game.

Don't treat PGrens with shrecks as attacking AT, you have tanks for that.

Yes.

Shrecks in vCoH were for protection of PaKs, 88s and Marders and this haven't changed in CoH2.

And it's a total over investment. You're making your squad unable to work independently at the cost of a mild vehicle deterrent.

I don't understand why they changed it from the way it was in Closed Beta. It worked perfectly then as a good balance between cost efficiency and trade offs, with more options.

Still think there should be an option to upgrade just one shrek. Everyone talking about how you can't punish shreks charging across roads is full of it, had someone try to charge 2 t34s with a couple of vet 2 pgrens with shreks and the PGs got absolutely destroyed after getting only one volley off.

Still think there should be an option to upgrade just one shrek. Everyone talking about how you can't punish shreks charging across roads is full of it, had someone try to charge 2 t34s with a couple of vet 2 pgrens with shreks and the PGs got absolutely destroyed after getting only one volley off.

I have too. I don't think anyone thinks it's impossible. But it's RNG. Some times you'll kill one or two models and lose a tank. I would prefer it to be reliable or barring that reduce the last kiting nerf slightly.

Use what wehr and PE did like... always?
Don't treat PGrens with shrecks as attacking AT, you have tanks for that.

Shrecks in vCoH were for protection of PaKs, 88s and Marders and this haven't changed in CoH2.

In vcoh I used pg or strom trooper shrekd army alot. Tanks in vcoh were not so deadly vs inf as they are in coh2 so an all inf army was absolutely feasible. This went triple for pe tank hunters with the extra man upgrades and sprint. After the pe blob hit critical mass and vetted, they were near unstoppable.

They should decrease the Shrek's rate of fire and accuracy at long range. Tank shoud destroy any infantry in the open that's the rule of war.

In vcoh I used pg or strom trooper shrekd army alot. Tanks in vcoh were not so deadly vs inf as they are in coh2 so an all inf army was absolutely feasible. This went triple for pe tank hunters with the extra man upgrades and sprint. After the pe blob hit critical mass and vetted, they were near unstoppable.

Ou contrare. My Shermans who can reliably take out 1-3 PGs a shell at long range would like to have a word with you. Since vCoH tanks used accuracy instead of scatter, they are far more reliable. I know this from a lot of playing Europe in Ruins: Reinforcements mod (which is basically vCoH with persistent, vetted units in pre-set companies--every lost soldier entity matters) where infantry sniping/AI capabilities make the Sherman, StuG, Panzer IV, and Cromwell goldmines for your average EiR company.

In CoH2 I can regularly rage at my screen for the comparatively piss poor job my T-34s do against infantry.

Shrek'd PGs are massive problem in CoH2 relative to vCoH shrecks. Even PG blobs take it up the ass from competent Quad, .30 cal, BAR, Sherman, and/or Sniper micro, as well as the strafing run and 105 barrages. In CoH2 the pin-centric strafe is used by Germany. The best the Soviets can hope for is a lucky Katyusha or howitzer strike (against massed Shrecks).

As a German Player I would have absolutly no problem, if tank performance vs shreks would be more reliable. But what you propose is too make the tanks stronger against Pgrens.

The only problem here is that no soviet infantry unit has same performance against german tanks as shreks pzgrens against soviet tanks, and this has 2 reasons:

1. historical - that is the way it was
2. at the most general level, soviet units are more efficient against infantry while german units are more efficient against tanks.

But for balance sake, maybe something must be done related to this issue, like maybe buffing AT rifles or give a bazooka upgrade to one sovient infantry type unit (except partisans.

But then, the squad wipe problem must be corrected, because it's not ok to see a vetted pzgren squad with pzschrecks to be one-shot blasted without having a retreat chance.

The only problem here is that no soviet infantry unit has same performance against german tanks as shreks pzgrens against soviet tanks, and this has 2 reasons:

1. historical - that is the way it was
2. at the most general level, soviet units are more efficient against infantry while german units are more efficient against tanks.

But for balance sake, maybe something must be done related to this issue, like maybe buffing AT rifles or give a bazooka upgrade to one sovient infantry type unit (except partisans.

But then, the squad wipe problem must be corrected, because it's not ok to see a vetted pzgren squad with pzschrecks to be one-shot blasted without having a retreat chance.

Almost ALL the squad whipes have already been addressed and some new ones created

What we have left:

KV8 SORT OF i mean if you sit in front of it or it gets in your retreat path it will still whipe consistently

IS2-ISU152

Kat Prec Strike but the same could be said about a standard Werfer strike since they are almost the same scatter yet the werfer fires more rounds.

Now we went and created alot more through nades so with you there. Guards nade has gone full retard i think.

Thats it really. Everything else that used to do it has been adjusted. And FYSA reading Peters latest update looks like the T34 is getting a price increase and an AI Increase so problem should be solved there I hope. No more LOL Shrek blobs without consistent punishment.

there will always be squad wipes and rng matters as long as tank guns keep their accuracy tables and design.

by design in coh2, all tanks miss their infantry targets and rely on AOE and scatter to lands shots. the lower the scatter, the closer the rounds land on their intended target and the bigger the AOE, the easier it is to catch infantry in it. so with this design, none of the shots are calculated hits and extremely based on RNG.

2ndly, infantry squad AI cannot be controlled, whether you like it or not, they will and are going to bunch up.

so all it takes is a shot fired near a bunched up squad, let AOE do its work, more often than not, squad will get wiped. it happens more often with is2/isu152 because of their massive AOE. so its like sort of a freak accident with a stray shell.

and it works both ways. sometimes, rng is so bad, it takes about 5-7 shots and everything misses. other times, it takes a single shot to nail the entire squad.

compared to vcoh, the targeting tables were perfect, shells were calculated and homed into their targets. an AI tank has a good chance of nailing infantry regardless of its AOE. so a shell with virtually no AOE could still be depended on to kill infantry and shots landing on troops bunched up will only kill the target it was intended for, due to close to 0 AOE. this alone greatly reduces 1 shot wipes and freak accidents that happens often in coh2 and keeps things alot more consistent too.

so i have no idea why they went with the new system, maybe it was easier to implement and simplified things, lesser tables to work on. maybe they thought this would streamline stuff. laziness do fuck shit up sometimes and i suspect this is 1 of 'relic's laziness'.

i hope they do go back to their 'beloved' targeting tables and bring back units that we can actually depend on.

1. historical - that is the way it was
2. at the most general level, soviet units are more efficient against infantry while german units are more efficient against tanks.

Neither of your points hold any ground

Neither of your points hold any ground

Jesus!

I am convinced that you believe this, but can you say why?

Not sure if guards PTRS got some kind of buff at some point, but they really ain't that bad IMO. They can get a P4 down to half health quite quick, that's really not bad. Plus 2 best guard docs have mark target.

I killed a tiger that was trying to retreat to repair with some the other day. And they are only an auxilllary/ stop gap AT unit.

Not sure if guards PTRS got some kind of buff at some point, but they really ain't that bad IMO. They can get a P4 down to half health quite quick, that's really not bad. Plus 2 best guard docs have mark target.

I killed a tiger that was trying to retreat to repair with some the other day. And they are only an auxilllary/ stop gap AT unit.

Well, PTRS have better penetration then T34/76.

Nice eh? Friggin AT RIFLE have more power then a god damn tank cannon.

Well, PTRS have better penetration then T34/76.

Nice eh? Friggin AT RIFLE have more power then a god damn tank cannon.

Not the power, only penetration. Its only 14.4 mm caliber vs those 76 mm shell on t34. So yes, it penetrates, but do a little damage. I wonder if guards have "Target weak point" , as AT rifles were used for breaking vision scopes, tracks or break a turret rotation mechanism on heavy tanks

I think that's what Button is... even though you can only use it with the rather overpriced DP-28s...

So let's give guards button with PTRS, and DP's will be to provide AI only, like BARs in vCOH

They should consider making it a single shrek upgrade (i.e. only one shrek per squad), with how the game is now, I think it'd round things out nicely.