Flexible guards rifles - yes/no/maybe?

Since the recent patch, the DP machinegun upgrade is more then just adding the "button" ability". It's one of the better ranged anti infantry damage available to the soviet infantry. But the upgrade is pricey in terms of (100) ammo.

The guards also have mandatory AT-rifles, reducing there max anti infantry potential.
Also a full weapon upgraded squad becomes a walking treasure chest in terms of weapon drops.
Should guard rifles be more flexible in load out en battlefield role?


for example:

- Call-in guards could be vanilla with no weapon upgrade (just rifles)
- upgrade to 2x PTRS = 50 ammo
- upgrade to 2x DP = 50 ammo

Total upgrade cost would be the same with more diversity:

- more expansive basic guards, with slightly better AI
- the same guards rifle with 2xPTRS costing 50 ammo more
- DP guards with slightly higher AI DPS (2x rifle instead of AT rifle)
for 50 ammo less
- full treasure chest loadout for same cost (100 ammo)


Would you like to see more flexible guard rifles?
What would be the impact on the gameplay?
How would you implement it, or why wouldn't you?

Regards,
Exile

Is very successful. Two possible updates. Great idea

At a first look, it doesn't sound bad. I don't know how the AI capability increase will impact the meta.

Sounds like a good idea to me soviet need more dependable infantry

Soviets with Flexibility??? What heresy!

Or:

- Call-in guards could be vanilla with no weapon upgrade (just rifles)
- upgrade to 2x PTRS = 0 ammo
- upgrade to 2x DP = 100 ammo

How about increasing the AI effectiveness of the PTRS so that it were almost like the bolt-action rifles? Or SVTs, even. It's not like the 14,5 mm round were BAD against infantry. No firing on the move, of course.

Would make Guards good when standing still, and horrible when moving, especially with DP-28s.

How about doing something to make Cons and Penals respectable, so we don't end up with Guards vs Grens spam games.

I think it's good the way they are now, it gives them flexibility without excelling in Anti-infantry if penals or Cons had a little bit more AI punch (penals vs LMG grens don't scale well)

I absolutely love this idea, been wanting for awhile now.

Here's how I'd suggest:

- Make DP's 60 Mun.
- Make PTRS 40 Mun.
- Button requires Both.
- Reduce upgrade time of both by half.
- Reduce cost of button to compensate.

How about increasing the AI effectiveness of the PTRS so that it were almost like the bolt-action rifles? Or SVTs, even. It's not like the 14,5 mm round were BAD against infantry. No firing on the move, of course.

Would be next to impossible to do. Soldiers have 80 health, rifles do 16 damage, pretty average DPS. But PTRS does 40 damage per hit, so trying to average out 2 hit kills would make it very RNG dependent.

The only thing I would change about guards is the ability to re-buy dropped weapons. It's a bit strange that as the game progresses, guards actually get a lot worse because they drop their weapons more than any other squad.

I agree you should be more flexible with Guards. You should have the option to get them to DP-28 only to get more anti infantry capabilities out of them. But what´s currently bugging me the most with them is that usually with the At-rifles + DP-28 upgrade you are giving your opponent free equipment. The drop rate is insanely high.

Or:

- Call-in guards could be vanilla with no weapon upgrade (just rifles)
- upgrade to 2x PTRS = 0 ammo
- upgrade to 2x DP = 100 ammo

This or the OP's idea. Both sound good to me.

Or just reduce the MP cost of guards because they are way too expensive in both MP & ammo to be even remotely effective. Especially now that you see german mortar hits taking out 4-5 squad members when in cover basically forcing instant retreat.

Would be next to impossible to do. Soldiers have 80 health, rifles do 16 damage, pretty average DPS. But PTRS does 40 damage per hit, so trying to average out 2 hit kills would make it very RNG dependent.

Not really though, way back in the beta I pointed that the Anti-Trank rifle was the father of the Anti-Material weapons (like the .50 cal rifle) and AT-Rifles were used by the Finns to snipe Soviet troops. It could balanced and given a role that is now needed by Soviets, if they forgo Shocks the Soviets find it hard to remove entrenched Germans, so the AT rifle can "side-grade" into a long ranged anti-infantry weapon once tanks are on the field. This could work if the follow happens:

-Works alot like the SVT but the PTRS is the most long ranged and most accurate man-held weapon in the game.


-Due the huge firepower of the weapon its able to be effective on units in cover or in a house at long range.


-The huge size of the weapon means it cannot be used on the move.


-The PTRS had horrible iron sights which means it has a massive penalty on units which are moving, a very long aiming time (around the same time as a sniper) and the weapon has issues scaling when when units get closer.


If the PTRS worked like then then it would be able able to hurt overly defensive Germans but is weak to any anything charging the Guards or any infantry being micoed to avoid damage...

Guards are light AT. Removing PTRS early game will switch their role to an infantry fighting unit because it will result in a 20% increased small arms DPS output. The only reason they get DPs is so they scale into late game, and don't become paperweights (like the mini AT gun)

As it is, guards are incredible. With DP, they become anti infantry monsters. They are the only multi-purpose unit in the game which is a jack of all trades, and scale extremely well due to getting both defensive and offensive vet bonuses. Giving the player the ability to specialize them will give soviet armies little reason to make any other infantry.

Guards are light AT. Removing PTRS early game will switch their role to an infantry fighting unit because it will result in a 20% increased small arms DPS output. The only reason they get DPs is so they scale into late game, and don't become paperweights (like the mini AT gun)

As it is, guards are incredible. With DP, they become anti infantry monsters. They are the only multi-purpose unit in the game which is a jack of all trades, and scale extremely well due to getting both defensive and offensive vet bonuses. Giving the player the ability to specialize them will give soviet armies little reason to make any other infantry.

+1

I would rather have 1 DP upgrade on Penals instead.

Edit: i erase part of the message. Basically Guards are already jack of all trades. If you need some extra AI power, that should come from Penals.

Cons should fulfill your close/mid and Penals mid-long.

As it is, Panzergrenadiers are incredible. Without any upgrades, they are anti-infantry monsters.

Slightly altered that for you

I've been asking for Guards to spawn with six rifles for a while now so I give a +1 to OP