Beta for Western Front

I think SEGA might have be worried about cancelled pre-orders. Apparently it happened for the game launch (with the open beta). Doesnt matter, release in 3 days anyway.

So in fact they are throwing out a game without a Beta?
Oh boy...

Why would you need a beta now? The game's been alpha tested by community members including myself for like 6 weeks.

Why would you need a beta now? The game's been alpha tested by community members including myself for like 6 weeks.

!No offence, but that might be exactly why it would indeed need a beta

!No offence, but that might be exactly why it would indeed need a beta

No we don't need a beta. The people who got to test knew what they were doing. You haven't even played the goddamn game yet, don't tell me the people who tested the alpha don't know anything about balance. I'm sorry, but how am I not supposed to be offended by this? You don't even know what the expansion was like before people got to test it.

EDIT:

Correction, the expansion's been tested for 3 months.

You don't want beta, you want to play it already duuh.

Alpha was pretty much beta anyway, just not open, because there was no need for open beta, I was surprised how well relic reacted to feedback from us.

You haven't even played the goddamn game yet, don't tell me the people who tested the alpha don't know anything about balance.

And that is why we will also hold you personally responsible if balance is a terrible mess.
Watch your attitude.

And that is why we will also hold you personally responsible if balance is a terrible mess.
Watch your attitude.

Watch my attitude? You just insulted me indirectly a few posts up, of course I'm going to be angry.

Watch my attitude? You just insulted me indirectly a few posts up, of course I'm going to be angry.

Didn't insult you at all.

You are just some random nobody to me. You think you personally having been "involved" in testing somehow reassures me or give me any confidence? Hell no. Especially not now that I see what kind of a person you are.
I seem to remember you making a catastrophically false and stupid comment in relation to some stat the other day on these boards, to which you got immediately corrected. Not impressed really, at all.

If balance is bad in launch, that will have been a direct result of no beta, and also a direct result of you having failed in your testing and feedback.

Thats just how it is. So I would stow your attitude, because if balance is bad, it is you who will be, for good reason, blamed for that, and it will be proof that it did indeed need a separate beta stage.

Didn't insult you at all.

You are just some random nobody to me. You think you personally having been "involved" in testing somehow reassures me or give me any confidence? Hell no. Especially not know that I see what kind of a person you are.
I seem to remember you making a catastrophically false and stupid comment in relation to some stat the other day on these boards, to which you got immediately corrected. Not impressed really, at all.

If balance is bad in launch, that will have been a direct result of no beta, and also a direct result of you having failed in your testing and feedback.

Thats just how it is. So I would stow your attitude, because if balance is bad, it is you who will be, for good reason, blamed for that, and it will be proof that it did indeed need a separate beta stage.

Yes you did. You basically said that everybody who participated in the alpha and gave feedback is dumb and that you don't trust them with balance. What I meant with that I myself was in the alpha was that the community themselves got to test and give feedback, not to say that I'm this motherfucker who knows how to balance things perfectly. That mistake I made in the other thread was because some modifier shit was changed and to simplify it because I couldn't quite remember what exactly was changed I said that their health got buffed, which is basically what resulted from those changes.


EDIT: What would a beta have changed anyway? Most of the community members that gave feeback and tested were unbiased and looked at everything fairly, I don't see how a beta would make things better than they are now.

And how exactly does not knowing a few stats suddenly make you not know how to balance a game? You don't have to be a stats guru to know how to balance things.

I has been tested by a lot of people for 3 weeks in a public (as in everyone had a chance to apply) Alpha/Beta. Does it really matter how you call it?
Before that it was tested for ~2 months in a closed Alpha by a group of 30 to 40 CoH2 players who've been involved with balance for a long time. After the public Alpha/Beta there were also quite some balance improvements, but due to the time (bit above a week before launch) not much testing.
Before the closed Alpha it was tested internally by Relic for god knows how long.


Why would you need a dedicated 'beta' phase? It's really just a name difference, most of the time there is barely any difference between Alpha and Beta state to be honest.

MilkaCow gets it. Who cares if they didn't have a phase called "Beta", they had the Alpha and I heard it started out as utter shit and turned into glory. They don't need an arbitrary name-change because things got better, the end of the Alpha was fantastic as I've heard from many people participating.

Exactly. There is no need for a beta because the alpha was pretty much a beta. It's just a useless name change.

MilkaCow gets it. Who cares if they didn't have a phase called "Beta", they had the Alpha and I heard it started out as utter shit and turned into glory. They don't need an arbitrary name-change because things got better, the end of the Alpha was fantastic as I've heard from many people participating.

Pretty much this, I was also in the Alpha, and I wouldn't say it started out "utter shit" but it was no where near as good/stable/balanced as it was by the end. I can't say what changed but trust me, without the alpha the game would of come out pretty buggy and a hell of a lot different to what it became.

I think you will all be pleased with the results, even more so if you know how much progress was made in those few short weeks of "Open" Alpha.

Of course there are going to be those that whine and moan and bitch because they lost to a certain strat or they just got bad RNG or in one game and had a squad or tank wiped or a "clueless"/"bad" teammate. - Does that mean it's a bad game? Of course not, it just means it needs more tweeking.

Relic really listened to the feedback we gave them, more so than I've ever seen them listen to the community or players, if this is a feel of things to come, then more of the same please Relic!

Tl;dr: Game changed a lot over the course of alpha more so near the very end than any other point, having a "bad" player/ bad RNG does not make the game bad and Relic are listening more to the community than ever before.

If balance is bad in launch, that will have been a direct result of no beta, and also a direct result of you having failed in your testing and feedback.

Of course balance is going to be bad at launch... when has an RTS (or an expansion for one) ever gone live without balance issues?

To expect an expansion containing two entire new factions, a dozen new maps, new commanders, etc etc to be balanced is really stupid.

There's no way to test every map/faction/strat/doctrine combination without a long open beta (at which point you might as well just release the game cuz everyone has access to it anyways).

So yeah. Get real dude.

I has been tested by a lot of people for 3 weeks in a public (as in everyone had a chance to apply) Alpha/Beta. Does it really matter how you call it?
Before that it was tested for ~2 months in a closed Alpha by a group of 30 to 40 CoH2 players who've been involved with balance for a long time. After the public Alpha/Beta there were also quite some balance improvements...

yeah public as in strict NDAs and a selection process.

you guys are what qduffy refer to as their "most rabid fans". i mean i like the game myself but i'm not going to defend it if it sucks. the fact that they don't want to have something as common as an open beta (which is more of a 'try before you buy' kinda thing nowadays) sends off a serious red flag. someone else mentioned that maybe it's because SEGA doesn't want to lose pre-orders - and that's exactly the point. what would cause them to worry about that? maybe the game itself isn't that good? it shows a lack of confidence in their product.

yeah public as in strict NDAs and a selection process.

you guys are what qduffy refer to as their "most rabid fans". i mean i like the game myself but i'm not going to defend it if it sucks. the fact that they don't want to have something as common as an open beta (which is more of a 'try before you buy' kinda thing nowadays) sends off a serious red flag. someone else mentioned that maybe it's because SEGA doesn't want to lose pre-orders - and that's exactly the point. what would cause them to worry about that? maybe the game itself isn't that good? it shows a lack of confidence in their product.

well when i first played in alpha, i wasnt expecting much and was really cynical. but i was really surprised how much it was enjoyable etc etc.
i think many ppl will be pleasantly surprisrised.

Of course balance is going to be bad at launch... when has an RTS (or an expansion for one) ever gone live without balance issues?

To expect an expansion containing two entire new factions, a dozen new maps, new commanders, etc etc to be balanced is really stupid.

There's no way to test every map/faction/strat/doctrine combination without a long open beta (at which point you might as well just release the game cuz everyone has access to it anyways).

So yeah. Get real dude.

I don't know about this. Two things must be clear though:
1. Nobody should expect to see a perfect balance, from several practiacal reasons.
2. It's nice that it has been tested by real players and it has been tested for a long time. But unless the whole testing thing is different from what it was before (meaning that before real players didn't test the game), balance problems will still appear.
I sincerely hope that the testers did not favour any faction in their mindes, but I don't know...

yeah public as in strict NDAs and a selection process.

you guys are what qduffy refer to as their "most rabid fans". i mean i like the game myself but i'm not going to defend it if it sucks. the fact that they don't want to have something as common as an open beta (which is more of a 'try before you buy' kinda thing nowadays) sends off a serious red flag. someone else mentioned that maybe it's because SEGA doesn't want to lose pre-orders - and that's exactly the point. what would cause them to worry about that? maybe the game itself isn't that good? it shows a lack of confidence in their product.

I think the decision is all up to SEGA. I doubt anyone at SEGA even know what the game is like. Sounds like a corporate/publisher decision. Doesn't indicate if there's something to worry about WFA.

The game release lost preorders at launch maybe due to the lack of so many normal/modern RTS features (chat rooms, custom games, leaderboards, etc.), plus the hard history of this game (THQ going bankrupt, etc.).

yeah public as in strict NDAs and a selection process.

you guys are what qduffy refer to as their "most rabid fans". i mean i like the game myself but i'm not going to defend it if it sucks. the fact that they don't want to have something as common as an open beta (which is more of a 'try before you buy' kinda thing nowadays) sends off a serious red flag. someone else mentioned that maybe it's because SEGA doesn't want to lose pre-orders - and that's exactly the point. what would cause them to worry about that? maybe the game itself isn't that good? it shows a lack of confidence in their product.

i doubt that. if ppl cancel preorders, it will be for a variety of reasons other than having a bad product.
ppl cancel preorders because their opinion of balance isnt met (U.S. OP! OKW OP!), or because vcoh americans were "better".
i doubt many people will say "the basic game mechanics are flawed/ the graphics are substandard/ the game lacks creativity".

The sound, animations, and models of units are all spectacular.