Since the Dev's have realized that cover makes a difference (as though they had forgotten everything from vCoh...)
It's time to give the sandbag build back to engineers/pios.
I'd love to see just how good this system of cover importance will be at late game when half the map is blown to smithereens and all green cover is mostly destroyed.
But - that'd actually require me to start playing the game again - which to be perfectly honest I haven't touched now for a few weeks.
Sandbags!
26 Mar 2014, 22:34 PM
#1
Posts: 329
26 Mar 2014, 22:50 PM
#2
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
No thanks. Sandbags are the conscripts only trump card against grenadiers.
26 Mar 2014, 22:52 PM
#3
Posts: 30
I'd hate to come off 'fanboy-ish', but this is how it sounded to me: 'Oh, let's give Germans another useful ability after they've received a big buff in the recent patch'.
Your point does have validity though, except I'd suggest removing sandbags ability from the conscripts instead. It's such a useless ability for them (or it was, at least - we're yet to see how it will play out in the current metagame). Soviets aren't supposed to be 'trenchy', but rather agressive, and sandbags do not help in that regard
Ninja edit: i'd also love some buff to cons offensive capabilities to compensate
An rgd grenade at vet1 instead of the stupid mine maybe?
Your point does have validity though, except I'd suggest removing sandbags ability from the conscripts instead. It's such a useless ability for them (or it was, at least - we're yet to see how it will play out in the current metagame). Soviets aren't supposed to be 'trenchy', but rather agressive, and sandbags do not help in that regard
Ninja edit: i'd also love some buff to cons offensive capabilities to compensate
An rgd grenade at vet1 instead of the stupid mine maybe?
26 Mar 2014, 23:03 PM
#4
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
Relic wants cover and long range fire fights to be more important and they want to reduce the blind charging of infantry over an open field. This is fine.
However, the germans have the correct tools for this type of gameplay; i.e. LMG42, long range rifle nades, G43. While soviets are mostly stuck with tools that are require you to close in; i.e. ppsh upgrade and molotovs, short range penal troops, conscripts doing more damage at close range etc.
The only advantage conscripts have now is that they can at least fortify their positions with green cover. Unless the soviets get long range grenades and long range light machine guns, to even out the playing field, I would like it to stay that way.
However, the germans have the correct tools for this type of gameplay; i.e. LMG42, long range rifle nades, G43. While soviets are mostly stuck with tools that are require you to close in; i.e. ppsh upgrade and molotovs, short range penal troops, conscripts doing more damage at close range etc.
The only advantage conscripts have now is that they can at least fortify their positions with green cover. Unless the soviets get long range grenades and long range light machine guns, to even out the playing field, I would like it to stay that way.
26 Mar 2014, 23:08 PM
#5
Posts: 317
I fully agree but maybe we should start by increasing soviet sandbag usefulness a little bit.
With the current meta they can be great, but:
They take quite long to build. too long for a game (and especially a faction) that focuses on movement so much.
What I did some time ago was giving sandbags to german Pioneers, Grens and Osttruppen while decreasing soviet sandbag build time, increasing hp and decreasing the min left and right distance (so that they are easier to place) and giving combat engineers access to them as well.
So while a german sandbag segment was shorter to build it took roughly the same time to build enough segments so that they have the length of the soviet sandbag emplacement, which was far more robust and couldnt be run over by light vehicles.
Sandbags for both factions would be interesting, but at the same time asymmetrical balance with soviet-only access is cool too^^
With the current meta they can be great, but:
They take quite long to build. too long for a game (and especially a faction) that focuses on movement so much.
What I did some time ago was giving sandbags to german Pioneers, Grens and Osttruppen while decreasing soviet sandbag build time, increasing hp and decreasing the min left and right distance (so that they are easier to place) and giving combat engineers access to them as well.
So while a german sandbag segment was shorter to build it took roughly the same time to build enough segments so that they have the length of the soviet sandbag emplacement, which was far more robust and couldnt be run over by light vehicles.
Sandbags for both factions would be interesting, but at the same time asymmetrical balance with soviet-only access is cool too^^
26 Mar 2014, 23:09 PM
#6
Posts: 30
Relic wants cover and long range fire fights to be more important and they want to reduce the blind charging of infantry over an open field. This is fine.
However, the germans have the correct tools for this type of gameplay; i.e. LMG42, long range rifle nades, G43. While soviets are mostly stuck with tools that are require you to close in; i.e. ppsh upgrade and molotovs, short range penal troops, conscripts doing more damage at close range etc.
The only advantage conscripts have now is that they can at least fortify their positions with green cover. Unless the soviets get long range grenades and long range light machine guns, to even out the playing field, I would like it to stay that way.
I think the sandbags just straignt up do not fit the Soviet playstyle. If the design is anything like that of the vCoH factions, soviets are not supposed to be defending at any time. They should be closing in, pushing, flanking, coming from all directions etc. What would they need the sandbags for with such playstyle?
Although after this patch - i don't even know anymore
Also, the thing is that you WILL at some point get pushed back, and at that point you've given your fortifications to the enemy. And the Germans will benefit from green cover much, much more than the Soviets can, so what's the point anyway?
26 Mar 2014, 23:10 PM
#7
Posts: 157
Speaking of sandbags, they should slightly reduce the time to build them.
26 Mar 2014, 23:45 PM
#8
7 Posts: 1664
Sandbags take less time to construct than capping a point does. Setting them up at every point you cap in the first couple of minutes can make some great spots for your snipers or Maxims to stay protected.
Also sandbag build time has already been reduced before. I personally wouldn't mind it happening again but I don't really think it's needed.
Also sandbag build time has already been reduced before. I personally wouldn't mind it happening again but I don't really think it's needed.
26 Mar 2014, 23:47 PM
#9
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
I think the sandbags just straignt up do not fit the Soviet playstyle. If the design is anything like that of the vCoH factions, soviets are not supposed to be defending at any time. They should be closing in, pushing, flanking, coming from all directions etc. What would they need the sandbags for with such playstyle?
Although after this patch - i don't even know anymore
Your units die way too fast for this type of play.
Also, the thing is that you WILL at some point get pushed back, and at that point you've given your fortifications to the enemy. And the Germans will benefit from green cover much, much more than the Soviets can, so what's the point anyway?
You can build sandbags is angles that will only benefit you. Or, you can wire of one side to deny cover.
http://www.coh2.org/topic/13627/soviet-sandbag-placement-tips
27 Mar 2014, 01:35 AM
#10
4 
Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2
I fully agree but maybe we should start by increasing soviet sandbag usefulness a little bit.
With the current meta they can be great, but:
They take quite long to build. too long for a game (and especially a faction) that focuses on movement so much.
What I did some time ago was giving sandbags to german Pioneers, Grens and Osttruppen while decreasing soviet sandbag build time, increasing hp and decreasing the min left and right distance (so that they are easier to place) and giving combat engineers access to them as well.
So while a german sandbag segment was shorter to build it took roughly the same time to build enough segments so that they have the length of the soviet sandbag emplacement, which was far more robust and couldnt be run over by light vehicles.
Sandbags for both factions would be interesting, but at the same time asymmetrical balance with soviet-only access is cool too^^
I'm ok with sandbag build time until I see a german bunker going up. It builds just as fast and infinitely more useful even if you are only decent with them.
Also, I hate how units sometime can't line up neatly along a straight line covers, eg. sandbags,low walls. Sometimes my conscripts stack neatly in a line and don't get suppressed by mg. But more often than not, one guy or more has to be away from the sandbag and mg suppress the whole squad. Just frustrating.
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27 Mar 2014, 01:37 AM
#11
Posts: 168
I can't believe how many sandbags and tank traps I built in CoH1! I took them for granted.
Now, its like a mini victory when I capture some sandbags with my grenadiers!
Now, its like a mini victory when I capture some sandbags with my grenadiers!
27 Mar 2014, 10:04 AM
#12
Posts: 807
Since the Dev's have realized that cover makes a difference (as though they had forgotten everything from vCoh...)
It's time to give the sandbag build back to engineers/pios.
I'd love to see just how good this system of cover importance will be at late game when half the map is blown to smithereens and all green cover is mostly destroyed.
But - that'd actually require me to start playing the game again - which to be perfectly honest I haven't touched now for a few weeks.
Soviet have sandbags and germans have trenches. Case closed.
27 Mar 2014, 16:06 PM
#13
Posts: 329
Soviet have sandbags and germans have trenches. Case closed.
Trenches are doctrinal ONLY.
Case open buddy.
27 Mar 2014, 16:13 PM
#14
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
Trenches are doctrinal ONLY.
Case open buddy.
Bunkers.
Case closed.
27 Mar 2014, 16:24 PM
#15
Posts: 329
Bunkers.
Absolutely agree - the game is equally broken in that respect also that bunkers are only available to one faction.
27 Mar 2014, 16:25 PM
#16
Posts: 230
Absolutely agree - the game is equally broken in that respect also that bunkers are only available to one faction.
and to think, when i was a beta tester they had a really stupid doctrine planned - it's main feature: buildable watchtowers and bunkers for soviets. one of the most useless doctrines ever made imho.
i wonder if it'l ever be released
typical relic business model: "if we forgot to give a faction something, we'll just sell it to them as a DLC later on!"
27 Mar 2014, 17:59 PM
#17
60 Posts: 93
27 Mar 2014, 18:03 PM
#18
Posts: 317
and to think, when i was a beta tester they had a really stupid doctrine planned - it's main feature: buildable watchtowers and bunkers for soviets. one of the most useless doctrines ever made imho.
i wonder if it'l ever be released
typical relic business model: "if we forgot to give a faction something, we'll just sell it to them as a DLC later on!"
Hooray for NDA
27 Mar 2014, 18:32 PM
#19
Posts: 30
Your units die way too fast for this type of play.
You can build sandbags is angles that will only benefit you. Or, you can wire of one side to deny cover.
http://www.coh2.org/topic/13627/soviet-sandbag-placement-tips
So, are we supposed to dump a ton of micro into what would only serve a temporary purpose and not have our units fighting elsewhere?
To be honest, 'digging in' goes straight against my playing paradigm
People keep bringing up infantry lethality in vCoH, but there you could easily be all over the map with your 2E/4R start as the US, come from all directions and reign the field during the early game ^__^That's my ultimately favourite playstyle
Not every soviet player wants to blob I think the game should be able to support dynamic playstyle. Otherwise it would lose all the fun and just suck.
29 Mar 2014, 01:43 AM
#20
Posts: 4928
Honestly I think I use sandbags as traps more than I do as cover. They take too long to build where I want them, it's easier to just set them up somewhere safe and in the event the enemy goes to attack there..
"Look Heinrich, suspiciously convenient sandbags!"
*5 seconds later*
"Scheiße! Minen!"
"Look Heinrich, suspiciously convenient sandbags!"
*5 seconds later*
"Scheiße! Minen!"
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