after 3/25 patch: what are soviet options for winning ?

I think everybody would agree that pios do to much for its role at the moment.

But in general this patch leads the balance and the gameplay to a right direction. I played a few games as Soviets and it doesn't feel underpowered at all.

I think it's a good patch and you should start improving yourself instead of flaming in the forums. Give yourself some time and don't assume if you played 500+ hours coh2 your micro and decisionmaking can adapt within two or three games.

The dynamic feels good now and I'm sure they'll hotfix the "pio problem"

Like I said elsewhere, I feel Relic took a massive leap in the right direction but landed in some dog shit on the way.

They need to scrape the shit off their shoes and keep moving in that direction.

I am a soviet player, never played german except for a few times against one of my buddy that needed practice as soviet.

I won the game and the player didn't play noobish or anything, he went 3 cons 1 shock 1 mg 1 mortar fast t34.

If you never played Ostheer before, you will get easy enemys. You get sepreate enemys for the two factions. Maybe his play din't feel noobish, because both of you were noobish, which means it felt like not noobish xD

@ SSHeine

German weapon upgrades are actually less expensive, my dear. 50 muni LMG, pretty cheap and affordable.
Now, you don't clearly understand the entire issue this patch is causing. Imagine, ifAG sprint into cons squad, they will rip them in pieces. If consqripts do the same, trying to get into closer distance to throw the molotov, they will die.

There were huge changes made to game dynamics, however game developers were not smart enough to understand that applying such changes to old base will simply not work. And here are some examples, dear friend:

1. Soviet infantry fights are very very cover dependant now. IMO, that was a necessary change.
But do we have enough cover? NO. There are a lot of areas on a lot of maps, where cons have very little options for surviving because of abscence of ANY cover. Lousy sandbags, fences, and farming equipment do not provide enough cover to a six-men crew.

2. Molotov animation. By the time this poor fella pulls his Molotov, swings wide and throws into enemy, Germans will shred 4 out of 6 models. Molotovs don't insta kill, the crew can simply stand in flames for a couple of seconds and finish the massacre. Soviet player will have to hit retreat, thus losing the fight any way.

That's what we have been talking about for last three days, my dear SSHeine.
There is no whining like you German fan boys call it, we just simply address Relics attention to issues they created with raw and unfinished in terms of balance patch.

What can be done:

1. Change map design/ layout. If you want units to use cover - simply create cover, add more durable objects on the map.

2. Change conscripts and penals. Remove lousy molotovs but add smoke and RNG grenades. Increase the cost of HQ updates, or figure out anything else to make conscripts a fighting unit and not a veterancy feeding meat shield they are right now.

@ SSHeine

German weapon upgrades are actually less expensive, my dear. 50 muni LMG, pretty cheap and affordable.
Now, you don't clearly understand the entire issue this patch is causing. Imagine, ifAG sprint into cons squad, they will rip them in pieces. If consqripts do the same, trying to get into closer distance to throw the molotov, they will die.

There were huge changes made to game dynamics, however game developers were not smart enough to understand that applying such changes to old base will simply not work. And here are some examples, dear friend:

1. Soviet infantry fights are very very cover dependant now. IMO, that was a necessary change.
But do we have enough cover? NO. There are a lot of areas on a lot of maps, where cons have very little options for surviving because of abscence of ANY cover. Lousy sandbags, fences, and farming equipment do not provide enough cover to a six-men crew.

2. Molotov animation. By the time this poor fella pulls his Molotov, swings wide and throws into enemy, Germans will shred 4 out of 6 models. Molotovs don't insta kill, the crew can simply stand in flames for a couple of seconds and finish the massacre. Soviet player will have to hit retreat, thus losing the fight any way.

That's what we have been talking about for last three days, my dear SSHeine.
There is no whining like you German fan boys call it, we just simply address Relics attention to issues they created with raw and unfinished in terms of balance patch.

What can be done:

1. Change map design/ layout. If you want units to use cover - simply create cover, add more durable objects on the map.

2. Change conscripts and penals. Remove lousy molotovs but add smoke and RNG grenades. Increase the cost of HQ updates, or figure out anything else to make conscripts a fighting unit and not a veterancy feeding meat shield they are right now.

It's "Heini" and I am a balanced game fanboy, not a german faction one.
I can agree to you on one thing: yes, there could be a problem to put in cover 6 men. And most people agree that pios may be overpowered. But these should not nullify the good direction Relic chose with this patch. Maybe they should find a solution to properly cover those 6 men squads, no arguing about it. As I said before, we should play more, both factions, and come back after 2 weeks. Thing is there are some people here that, while playing with soviets, they still win and think that these are great changes. I think we must all agree that just walking units over the map and insta win is not what we want. This was what soviet play was untill this patch. So Relic moved into the right direction, what they need to do is maybe make some adjustments here and there, covering some of the reasonable requests you and other players made. Going back to something similar to what it was before for instance, would be a mistake.

I am a balanced game fanboy, not a german faction one.

I'd love to quote all your posts on the forums here. You were always complaining about Soviets being too strong and German being so weak and needing so so much skill to play. I had a good laugh.

Only played a few games last night, but game feels far more balanced. All games were 4v4 just for the record. Won three games as Ost, although I rarely play Ost with a team, and lost one was Soviet partially because I did not yet know how to use the new patch.

Penals are there now to deal with Gren spam, and they work. Giving them flames allows them to force off PG's when they are in cover. They do need to close with the Grens to kill them. They are useful though.

Scripts are very vulnerable now, but probably fairer.

AC is in a good place. It is useful in the right hands, but vulnerable.

Pio's are probably too good. I really do like that they can wipe squads up close, but they come so early it is hard to deal with. Feels like they have a point now.

CE's feel too weak. Slight boost to their rifles would be nice. (Side note my CE in green cover ran into a Pio which advanced through green cover. We both were forced away at the same time. I lost 3 models, he lost 2 almost, almost lost the other 2. Feels fair).

Soviets have to take care of their armor now. Ram seems really silly as a result. If you do a good job of taking care of your tanks though they start to shine.

I don't think grens of any kind should be able to build bunkers.

Soviet sniper seems ok still. Ost sniper seems useless.

Flank, flank, flank. Flanking with a unit is so rewarding now.

Soviets use a lot more munitions now. I would not expect to see people floating munitions with this faction now.

Vehicle pathfinding so much better.

Those are my thoughts right now. I will keep playing and coming up with more thoughts.

You were always complaining about Soviets being too strong and German being so weak and needing so so much skill to play.

And the fact I was right with that made me a german fanboy. Lol.
This is as silly as calling one guy who states that Tiger was better than Shermann, a wehrmacht fanboy.

If you never played Ostheer before, you will get easy enemys. You get sepreate enemys for the two factions. Maybe his play din't feel noobish, because both of you were noobish, which means it felt like not noobish xD

Yeah, I thought about that too. But from my soviet perspective he played well, not as good as I would have but what was all over my face is how easier it was playing germans. The only thing that scared me is he was planting mines when he saw my p4. Apart from that, I just set up an mg and mortar covering my troops, gren at medium ranges, assgren close and I won the battle like this everytime. He was flanking with cons, using mortar and even saw a t70 which I took care easily flanking with my grens.

Ill continue playing germans to see if I get destroyed against better opponents but right now, it seems germans always has an immediate counter while soviet needs 2 - 3 units to make it a counter.

grenadier and pio rush counter: mg, mortar, shocks, cons and possibly light vehicles since you will be losing the map fast so you need to gain the advantage quickly.

What about t-70 and M-5 Halftrack.. Is anyoune using it?

What about t-70 and M-5 Halftrack.. Is anyoune using it?

T70 does very well vs any German infantry now due to the armour decrease, have not tried the M5 yet though

It's really difficult to close in against ACs now, I can imagine how much damage well microed one can do. I think you are pretty much forced to go guards on certain maps or else your f*d.

What about t-70 and M-5 Halftrack.. Is anyoune using it?

M5 with the quad mount decimates Ost infantry who decide to peak out of cover and supplements T2 incredibly well as it always did.

Maybe it was my opponents, but the T-70 seems to have a slightly bigger opening. Does a good job at pushing Ost infantry off the field as it did prior if you kite the shreks and ATGs. Just never send it in alone when you're going on the offensive against a position.

main problem for me:

1. pioneers, very effective counter to T0 and T2 (flanking). just get two and upgrade one of them with minesweeper! win win. combat engineers... i guess they do still have flame upgrade which can be wasted by rng gas tank explosion which is always nice.

2. osteer armoured car, very effective counter to T0, T1, T2, M5 Halftrack, Katusha... anything that is not in tank category. AC will surely survive from at nades now unless you have no support near it.

3. M5 is 270mp 30fuel but still in T3... sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit. still useful though.

4. osteer armoured car super effective but only sov light vehicle in T1-T2, M3, got a nerf if anything. "increase light vehicle's usefulness into mid-late game" my ass. sliver of health increase that m3 got came with decent armour nerf, so you will have more health left even when fausted but hell just hope that grens, pioneers, osteer weapons team crews who are not mannign the weapons near you (guards are decent though. just hope they wouldn't bunch up or dance around all the time).

5. sov weapons team bunch up too much making rifle nade super good, like pquemish said in helping hans stream today.

Well I see very sophisticated explanations in one other the other way. But as a player who likes also to play for relaxation and with no time or intention to make Mr. CoH2 Ph.D. (Yeah cover I know and use it) I write again that I really liked this game and judged it well and maturely balanced with the aftermath patch. It was fun to play as german and soviet fraction with almost every commander I spent money on.The fun is gone and I have a right to express my humble opinion because I also spent a good deal of money on that game. Have a great time.

Go play Battlefield, no realism, teletubies war!