HOLY POTATOES !!! patch 3/25

While he does play well, I find it simply mind blowing that he says soviets need 2 combat units or combined arms of tier units or even vehicles mixed with most expensive doctrinal AI unit to counter A BUILDER UNIT.

Where did he state that? The post earlier in this topic was refering to Grens and Assault Grens.

And really...some of the posts here... The balance devs and beta testers barely testing their patches, favoring static gameplay, being fanboys...do you actually believe what youre writing here folks?^^

Says it here: http://community.companyofheroes.com/forum/company-of-heroes-2/coh-2-balance-feedback/33663-new-pioneers-assault-grenadiers/page3

We checked the numbers on Pioneers after some concern was brought forward and they are working as intended. Maxims and the M3 used at range handle the pioneers extremely well. Try putting a shock squad in the M3 for additional close range damage. If you use conscripts, spread your units out and kite the pioneers or block their advance with molotovs. If you are kiting, try to kite left to right as opposed to backwards, as this will enable you to fire on the move.

maybe give sov engis smgs and pios rifles.

Where did he state that? The post earlier in this topic was refering to Grens and Assault Grens.

And really...some of the posts here... The balance devs and beta testers barely testing their patches, favoring static gameplay, being fanboys...do you actually believe what youre writing here folks?^^

Yes I do. They released broken commanders like ostruppen, assault support, elite troops and soviet industry. Ostruppen and assault support were changed the NEXT DAY! The other two doctrines were regardes as OP by all but the most abusive players and were finally fixed a few months later. What does this tell us, if not that they don't properly conduct tests? Does Relic's track record give indication of proper pre-release testing? I think not.

Says it here: http://community.companyofheroes.com/forum/company-of-heroes-2/coh-2-balance-feedback/33663-new-pioneers-assault-grenadiers/page3

Ah alright. Ok that is indeed a bit curious^^ Quite a lot of effort to counter a t0 non-combat unit.

Yes I do. They released broken commanders like ostruppen, assault support, elite troops and soviet industry. Ostruppen and assault support were changed the NEXT DAY! The other two doctrines were regardes as OP by all but the most abusive players and were finally fixed a few months later. What does this tell us, if not that they don't properly conduct tests? Does Relic's track record give indication of proper pre-release testing? I think not.

The problem is that its hard to predict what will be a problem for the playerbase. Because the playerbase consists of so many kinds of players. What might be a problem for medium skilled players might be easy to fight for pro players or even not be a problem in lower skilled matches because everyone there lacks the skills to actually execute the "OP strat" properly. And then there of course also are the different game modes.

At the same time its hard to judge the feedback. Should Relic listen to "noobs" as much as to medium skilled players? Noobs might simply lack the knowledge to identify problems. And then there's always a decent amount of exaggerating and the "It cant be my fault"-Mentality in community feedback.

In my opinion Relic and the Beta testers are doing an excellent job.
But they are a relatively small group of players and that can never replace the feedback (and game data) of thousands of players. And that's what Relic is currently gathering.

What time PST is the patch releasing?

And really...some of the posts here... The balance devs and beta testers barely testing their patches, favoring static gameplay, being fanboys...do you actually believe what youre writing here folks?^^

How do you know for sure? There are no solid answers until the way balancing is conducted is changed.

How do you know for sure? There are no solid answers until the way balancing is conducted is changed.

Because I know some of the Balance testers. They kicked my butt repeatedly in the past...I wont ever forget that

That doesent mean that I have a personal interest in defending them, their actions or decisions in any form by the way. Its simply not right to claim (without any evidence) that they are doing a bad job because you dont seem to like some of the changes. Criticize the changes? Sure! Thats feedback. Criticize the testers just for the sake of it? Why?...

Because I know some of the Balance testers. They kicked my butt repeatedly in the past...I wont ever forget that

They should! The majority of them that I've audited are top 100 players and in some circumstances top 10. Which brings up an interesting point. Go back to when the thread about 'lets be awesome together' was made. Remember that whole debate about Relic not supporting the hard core players? Well, there are certainly a lot of hard cores on the beta team. I'm looking forward to completing my review of the composition of the beta team. I've received a PM from one and he didn't yell at me. That is pretty cool.

We appreciate everyone's feedback, what we need is replays to demonstrate some of the issues people have identified. For example, if Pioneers are beating your Conscripts 1v1 that isn't intended, but we need to see a replay to see how things unfolded. If you run into an ambush with your Conscripts and fight them at point blank, or your squad is half health, then that might explain the situation better. Its very easy to misconstrue an issue unless you psychically review the replay to understand the scenario better.

We will respond if players can provide concrete examples of issues occurring in game. This isn't a closed door, we are open to feedback.

I like the new patch. Sure there are some things that I see a problem with but the new early game is really nice. You get the old cat and mouse mechanic we used to have in vcoh. Units seem to have more of a role.

Again, I really love the patch, thanks for listening to the community and for constantly improving the game. It's obvious that not everything can be tested and some things will always slip through but you can depend on the community to be very vocal about it (just a sign of how passionate we are about the game).

We appreciate everyone's feedback, what we need is replays to demonstrate some of the issues people have identified. For example, if Pioneers are beating your Conscripts 1v1 that isn't intended, but we need to see a replay to see how things unfolded. If you run into an ambush with your Conscripts and fight them at point blank, or your squad is half health, then that might explain the situation better. Its very easy to misconstrue an issue unless you psychically review the replay to understand the scenario better.

We will respond if players can provide concrete examples of issues occurring in game. This isn't a closed door, we are open to feedback.

The direction of the patch is correct, but I wonder how long this patch was in beta testing? I mean you cannot be serious about us posting feedback if you had it for lets say 3 months in beta, its not hidden balance facts, 80% of the community spotted it in 5 minutes of gameplay.
I mean ok pios kill cons at point blank, fine. But grens utterly decimate cons at all ranges.
I would understand if it worked gren> cons long range, grens=cons medium, grens<cons close range.
It would make sense, but right now even if it is just like I stated above. The maps are completely in favor of ostheer. Even if you are on spot with cons first, grens will just attack move and stay at maximum range and rape the poor commies. If I need 2 cons to beat 1 gren, why they cost the same? Makes no sense. Penals are viable against grens but paying 270 MP for a unit to beat a 240 is kinda strange. I thought Soviet should have the masses. But at the current state its the other way around. Combined arms is nice yes, but its really really hard to execute it as soviets at the moment.

Yestreday I went cons ->maxim ->cons->cons. I though I would fend of and hold some territory against the ostheer. Lol, nope. He had 5 grens (shoutout to Cata advertising the strat), just running to the maxim from all sides and completely ignoring the cons. Poor maxi couldn`t retreat =(

Maybe it's not possible but, I really think Snipers should still be able to garrison vehicles just not be able to fire from them. It makes no sense to not be able to transport your sniper across the battlefield.

love the patch but just nerf the pios.. they should not be a combat unit without the flamer.. my advice would be decrease their armor a bit and buff bolt action accurcy vs units without cover (so charging is more dangerous) otherwise.. THE BEST PATCH EVER!!!

they should not be a combat unit without the flamer.. my advice would be decrease their armor a bit

you cant reduce their armor below 1... it would have no effect. and theres no reason why pios cant be combat units other than the fact they werent before.

you cant reduce their armor below 1... it would have no effect. and theres no reason why pios cant be combat units other than the fact they werent before.

you think pios should be a effective combat unit but engineers should not? kk


And if you would make engineers a effective combat unit what should it beat? grenadiers? would be stupid

you think pios should be a effective combat unit but engineers should not? kk


And if you would make engineers a effective combat unit what should it beat? grenadiers? would be stupid

putting words in his mouth good job.

The direction of the patch is correct, but I wonder how long this patch was in beta testing? I mean you cannot be serious about us posting feedback if you had it for lets say 3 months in beta, its not hidden balance facts, 80% of the community spotted it in 5 minutes of gameplay.
I mean ok pios kill cons at point blank, fine. But grens utterly decimate cons at all ranges.
I would understand if it worked gren> cons long range, grens=cons medium, grens<cons close range.
It would make sense, but right now even if it is just like I stated above. The maps are completely in favor of ostheer. Even if you are on spot with cons first, grens will just attack move and stay at maximum range and rape the poor commies. If I need 2 cons to beat 1 gren, why they cost the same? Makes no sense. Penals are viable against grens but paying 270 MP for a unit to beat a 240 is kinda strange. I thought Soviet should have the masses. But at the current state its the other way around. Combined arms is nice yes, but its really really hard to execute it as soviets at the moment.

Yestreday I went cons ->maxim ->cons->cons. I though I would fend of and hold some territory against the ostheer. Lol, nope. He had 5 grens (shoutout to Cata advertising the strat), just running to the maxim from all sides and completely ignoring the cons. Poor maxi couldn`t retreat =(

Lol yeah, i used to play this way pre-patch, very heavy T1, 6-7 Grens with weapon upgrades. Its insanely easy to win games with this now in ladder after the patch.

This new patch seems to be cutting off a few of the german loose ends where they trump the soviets too hard. Penals are also getting some love. A satchel charge will one shot a bunker now.

I crawled out of my hole and decided to play as soviets in ranked matches. Fair wins and losses, as long as the germans didnt abuse spam of a single unit. I overreacted, seeing the super pios first, and hid. Fortunately for me, i never played the conscript spam rush way, and my build order usually consists as two maxims as my first units. I establish a perimeter, then i reinforce it with barbed wire and mines. Conscripts set up cover, AT guns and mortars at the ready. I shall say i abuse the quad mount halftrack, i rush one out, and i try to bleed as many squads as i can before they pull out AT. Then their land is up for grabs. Soviet industry remains a very useful commander, and using armor tactically avoids the advantage german rifles have. I have yet to see what armor changes will come...