German forces

If Pzgrenadiers get hit by a guards' nadr, then they lost the battle. Do not underestimate the guards AI.

Hence Nade Platform. Without a good nade hit I have taken down two Guards with one Pgren in less than 30 seconds.

Overpowered? No I think not....

Hence Nade Platform. Without a good nade hit I have taken down two Guards with one Pgren in less than 30 seconds.

Overpowered? No I think not....

I never said guards are overpowered. I like this feature of theirs. My problem is with the soviet sniper pushing me off the map and ruining my counters.

pzgren spam with reinforce assistance < Uber Ppsh/shock and guard spam with dp's

Thats how I read this. Thanks for Clarifying. I can see dual snipers as a problem but I have yet to run into with my German play 1v1 (granted I am not playing top 100 player so there you go)

At my skill level I just back up my Grens with a Scout Car or two. And it keeps them back. Managed to sacrfice one Scout Car to keep the Guards Busy while I circle with the other and got two sniper kills.

But thats just me. I am sure it gets harder as things progress.

pzgren spam with reinforce assistance < Uber Ppsh/shock and guard spam with dp's

Thats how I read this. Thanks for Clarifying. I can see dual snipers as a problem but I have yet to run into with my German play 1v1 (granted I am not playing top 100 player so there you go)

At my skill level I just back up my Grens with a Scout Car or two. And it keeps them back. Managed to sacrfice one Scout Car to keep the Guards Busy while I circle with the other and got two sniper kills.

But thats just me. I am sure it gets harder as things progress.

It is different for every situation. Sometimes things go your way, and sometimes the enemy finds a way around your counter. Map also matters a lot. It seems to be harder in urban maps where any side (russians in my case) can guard any form of flanking against their snipers, and the snipers just run into an alleyway and vanish with their sprint. It just annoys me that this has become an official early game tactic, and the early game means everything. Then t34/85 hordes come and take out our stunted armor. Early game control locks you out of any comeback later once everyone has teched. Russians suffer late game often, but they stand a better chance than they would have if they were suffering early game. (Not saying that Germans should not suffer, but its legit tough to counter when your army has been bled with little game, with very little map control, and since it is early game, you have nothing to make a comeback with since you never had an advantage.)

I actually did what you did, somewhat. I led two panzergrenadier squads against 2 guards troops. (I dont remember if they had DP's yet) The sniper was in the back. I scooted my upgraded 222 around the back and took care of the sniper, but my panzergrenadiers were suffering bad, I took out a few models, but one of my squads was down to 3 men and was wiped by a guards' nade. The second squad i was forced to retreat. I was pulling my 222 to an alleyway much further down the street, and as it was rounding the bend, somehow, despite the clumsiness of guards and the fact my 222 was out of their site range, and the guards were focusing on my retreating squad, one random guard shot and hit my 222 at a panther's range and it died. When i returned, he regained what he had lost and set up a more effective counter to my army. I lost that engagement and my side of the map. It annoyed me that Russians made only counters and no real static army. I like playing as if it was real, one brute force against another. Obviously when that is not the case with the enemy, i switch tactics to try to kill him off, but times like these is when a german strat just does not work.

You are arguing like a kid
Definitely you don't know the strength of Soviet and abuse them to full potential.

Both 3 points above you stated are bullshit,
PPSH not global upgrade? You fucking kidding me? They are cheap like fuck.
P4 spammer so you need to ram? God, learn to use the t34
No paratrooper recoiless rifle? You have the marder 3 on steroid, and T34 85 which is better than M10 anytime. If you can't deal with stuff L2P

But the guy who said about Ostheer are true, some of Soviet stuff does not have true counter or their counter not doing their job well because of gimmicky COH2 design, then Relic trying to balance them making units ridiculous. The shock/G43, SU85/panzer problem is the best example.

Captain obvious to the rescue!
How about you will TRY reading what I was responding to first instead of jumping on my post and going bananas over it because you didn't get the context of it and are so far away from the point I made that you're about to leave solar system?

Are you going to the cinema when 2nd half of the movie starts and start complaining that plot doesn't make any sense as well?

I think more than anything Germans are missing important parts of what makes up an army.

Shock troops and su 85s, kv8s, is152s, is2 that squad wipe, 2 man sniper teams, 6 man support crews. These things mean you are always at a disadvantage until you make an advantage. You cant fight on equal terms with Sovs, due to smaller squads vs largers squads, and German armor not having anywhere near the anti infantry effectiveness of Sov armor(especially considering German armor is already facing larger numbers of inf). The range, sight and accuracy of the su 85s mean you cannot fight it on equal ground as well.

I dont feel Sovs are op but I do feel like germans are gimped. If they would've given coh2 Germans the exact same army and doctrines as coh1, the Germans would have everything they need to fight the Sovs on equal terms or advantageously. But they removed some of the best features of Wehrmacht and left them with gaping holes. Not having a puma meant that t70s got so out of control they had to nerf them. Not having bikes means you have to suicide rush su 85 spammers and they too got nerfed. Not having bikes let the sniper/flamer scout combo get out of control.

The gwagon with its paper thin armor but long range would've been a great match for the su 85. Units that cost no fuel in t4 would've gave other options then just building panther or p4. Having an officer to force retreat shock troops? Shock troop blob vs sturmtruppen? Pumas to protect the flanks of your at guns? Like I stated earlier, I don't think the Sovs are op but ,especially to Coh1 vets, feel incomplete.

Amen.

It's my feeing that CoH2 sees a lot fewer soft counters than vCoH did. Units that should be effective aren't, either (Cons and ATGs should be just as terrifying as BAR'd Rifles and ATGs, not because of that cheese "huehuehue I make PaK ded hue hue" barrage). Then we have Panthers ignoring effing everything in their path because of their onboard hyperdrive and towed (and now teddy bear-proofed) shield bunker. I see where the devs were coming from, but trying to take WM and PE, one in each hand (in the manner of, say, holding a lump of Play-Do) and mashing them together to see what happens was a terrible idea.

Pile on the fact that the infantry (and, imho, tank) combat/damage system(s) are piss poor and RNG based in a way that makes vCoH's coding weep, and you get CoH2. I honestly feel the Eastern Front mods did a far better job than the CoH2 devs (even if the EF Ostheer is spotty in balance terms).

Katikof, m8, if you're really that bent on the Soviets being OP, find something equally abusive to counter them.

pe and wher mashed? They have less things then they had in coh1 and Sovs have abilites that wher and pe had that Germans no longer have.

Inc barrage and inc nades were some of the best. Instead they get the booty british rifle grenades. Fallshimjagers gone, in comes irregulars. Kch gone but in comes 6 man kch in soviet uniforms. Tank hunters gone, but now Sovs have tank hunters.

Instead of the pak 88 Germans get the inferior 17 pounder. Goliaths gone. Demo charges gone but Sovs still have them. Pe fhq plus heal gone, but Sovs have it and can reinforce from it. Sov have pe booby traps. Sov have ftfl, Germans don't anymore.

Sovs have german repair bunkers. Sovs have a watered down form of forced retreat, Germans lose it. With the exception of sector arty, I cant think of one other benefit that Pe had that

Germans now get, especially considering the things they lost from coh1, most of which found their way to the Sov army. The only thing new for germans, is the elephant and air support, and smoke. Ostruppen are watered down volks. Pgs are grens. All that is a sucky trade off for what they lost.

Thank you Hawk,

Your are right Flame HT destroys them , that's my problem i usually do not produce Flamme HT... because i prefere to use the 120 ammo to the Schreks or G43 , maybe i will change my way of playing...

I love playing 3v3 and 4v4 games, so now i don't know if my gameplay is bad or if it's my teamates gameplay , that's why i will post 2 gameplays to show you my games.
And i hope that the problems will be analysed.

For information i don't play with a partner yet.

This is my Stats , you can see the Streaks, its bad , my stats were positive before.

http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561197978963967

My opinion on german play, if you want to stay on the safe side and have a close confort to what soviets currently have, is that you should avoid to use "mistakes unforgiving" units in start game, such as: FHT and sniper. These units are very easy to lose, and they cost alot. Losing them will put you on disadvantage. If you usually play 2v2, 3v3, 4v4 games then you can build anything, theoretically. But for 1v1 I would not advise the use of FHT and sniper unless you have a devil's micro.

pe and wher mashed? They have less things then they had in coh1 and Sovs have abilites that wher and pe had that Germans no longer have.

Inc barrage and inc nades were some of the best. Instead they get the booty british rifle grenades. Fallshimjagers gone, in comes irregulars. Kch gone but in comes 6 man kch in soviet uniforms. Tank hunters gone, but now Sovs have tank hunters.

Instead of the pak 88 Germans get the inferior 17 pounder. Goliaths gone. Demo charges gone but Sovs still have them. Pe fhq plus heal gone, but Sovs have it and can reinforce from it. Sov have pe booby traps. Sov have ftfl, Germans don't anymore.

Sovs have german repair bunkers. Sovs have a watered down form of forced retreat, Germans lose it. With the exception of sector arty, I cant think of one other benefit that Pe had that

Germans now get, especially considering the things they lost from coh1, most of which found their way to the Sov army. The only thing new for germans, is the elephant and air support, and smoke. Ostruppen are watered down volks. Pgs are grens. All that is a sucky trade off for what they lost.

I was thinking towards teching and units; the 222, Panzergrenadiers, the 250 HT and the MHT.

Your post was basically what I was going to follow up with. CoH2 re-uses too many of vCoH's abilities (an overconcentration of abilities, considering the fact that they're used within 2 factions rather than 4) in an iffy fashion.

You forget this:

251 with MG, back in France the ultimate pinning machine, now shooting pee.
222, back in France the bane and doom devils of Allies infantry, but they flee like zebra spotting a lion when they see some armed peasant of Soviet

Hah, an MG 42 in France was something that only Rangers or Airborne dared to charge at, and even then they took at least a couple losses.

Now every farmer with a rifle has no qualms about charging headlong into it, knowing that only one, or maybe two, of them will actually get hurt by it.

Back in France, Grenades were actually dangerous too. Now the only real danger are bundled grenades and guard grenades.

The first minutes are very important yes , but when 4 snipers are opening fire on your troops and kill all of them in 6 secondes ... what can we do if you cant get the suitable unit to kill them in the first 10 mins ? they kill all , and when your are focusing on killing snipers , cons and scoot car with flammes come to kill your fixes position and kill all at your back ... and i know at the begining of the game if we will win or not, because they can get 3/4 of the map in 6 min ... waiting for my recon car ...and recon car destroyed 1 min later trying to follow up the snipers ...

I cant find a solution for the first 10 min with a player who use lot of snipers ...