German forces

My biggest gripe with Germans is just their play style. They are very rigid. Not having OORAH and Molos is painful when dealing with Support Teams of the Size of Soviets.

Using the German Support teams feels like using a Soviet sniper without the clown car. They can own like crazy butttt you have to be VERY careful because Charlie is out in the bush with his MOLOTOVS!!

On the other hand. Their infantry is so damn good at making things very dead if allowed to have the muni. Like Katitof said unless you pick doctrines that have PPSH or Shocks or Guards your scripts are capper/AT nades and only do damage in Blobs.

Then tanks. German armor is fair at the T3 level and pretty straightforward to deal with. But then the Mighty Panther hits the field. And it LOL at any attempt to DARE bring it down. Then Jesus if you start to add vet to it ugh.

But thats the Asymetry I suppose. Crappy but easy to keep alive and very mobile infantry and support teams. Versus harder to keep alive face melting infantry and support teams. Then it goes into armor and....well....RAM and Callins baby thats what you got....

In team games, are Germans easy mode.

I think more then anything Soviets are missing important parts of what makes up an army.

Panzer grenadiers which are great AI or AT, grenadiers with effective none doctrinal LMG upgrade and free of charge pfaust/rnade and none doctrinal panthers, brummbars, early flame halftruck and on field reinforcement, elephants, tigers, varied units in each tier that compliment each other greatly, ability to put up tiers reliably. These things mean you are always at disadvantage until you make an advantage with enforced use of doctrine.
You can not fight on equal terms with Germs, due to much less effective troops, pidgeonholing inflexible tiering system, no upgrades for your units and soviet armor not having anywhere near the anti tank power, mobility or armor of german armor(especially considering soviet armor is often more expensive and less effective facing german armor).
The speed, armor, range and durability of Panther mean you cannot fight it on equal ground as well.

I don't feel germs are op, but I do feel like soviets are gimped. If they would've given coh2 soviets the exact same army and doctrines as coh1, the soviets would have everything they need to fight germs on equal terms or advantageously. But they removed some of the best features of allies and left them with gaping holes. Not having globally upgradable PPSH and normal grenades means that LMG grens were so out of control they had to nerf them. Not having rangers or paratroopers means you have to suicide ram P4s spammers and they had to nerf them. Not having infantry AT means elephant and panther abuse got out of control.

And so on and so forth.

See? I can also be blind on strengths of faction and act like they are crippled infants.

You are arguing like a kid
Definitely you don't know the strength of Soviet and abuse them to full potential.

Both 3 points above you stated are bullshit,
PPSH not global upgrade? You fucking kidding me? They are cheap like fuck.
P4 spammer so you need to ram? God, learn to use the t34
No paratrooper recoiless rifle? You have the marder 3 on steroid, and T34 85 which is better than M10 anytime. If you can't deal with stuff L2P

But the guy who said about Ostheer are true, some of Soviet stuff does not have true counter or their counter not doing their job well because of gimmicky COH2 design, then Relic trying to balance them making units ridiculous. The shock/G43, SU85/panzer problem is the best example.

I said they were cripple infants? of course you would say that. And dont lie, you feel Germans are op. My post points out what I feel and others have stated Germans are missing, your post is 90 percent of how strong Germans are. ITs clear how you feel about Germans being op or not, we already know what you are going to post before you post it.

The t70 issue highlighted why both sides need, and most armies have light armor. One side having and one side not having meant the other side had/has to fight with either more expensive, harder to obtain tanks, or overmatch with more vulnerable units at even more expense. I get the asymmetrical army thing but missing basic units creates gaps

You are arguing like a kid If falling to swearing and abuse isn't childish, I don't know what is.
Definitely you don't know the strength of Soviet and abuse them to full potential.

Both 3 points above you stated are bullshit,
PPSH not global upgrade? You fucking kidding me? They are cheap like fuck.

And you will always take casualties using them due to having to charge in close to German units who have non-doctrinal and superior upgrades...

P4 spammer so you need to ram? God, learn to use the t34

Have you even used the T-34?

No paratrooper recoiless rifle? You have the marder 3 on steroid, and T34 85 which is better than M10 anytime. If you can't deal with stuff L2P

Irrelevent, the RR is an infantry weapon. Tanks have nothing to do with them

But the guy who said about Ostheer are true, some of Soviet stuff does not have true counter or their counter not doing their job well because of gimmicky COH2 design, then Relic trying to balance them making units ridiculous. The shock/G43, SU85/panzer problem is the best example.

Shocks being 3 CPs and double the cost a gren squad not enough? What about the Panther, where's its non-doctrinal equivalent or counter? What about the Ostwind? Where's its equivalent? What about Effective Soviet AT? The SU-85 is a crappy unit (gameplay wise) and shouldn't be where it is, but if it were nerfed even further then Soviets would be in serious trouble. Your arguments ignore Soviet problems and exaggerate German ones. The Germans have the best flanking units in the game (their panzers) as well as extremely effective non-doctrinal infantry AT with the same range as a tank and just as good accuracy. German Tanks across the board are superior, what on earth have you been playing?

Have you even used the T-34?
what on earth have you been playing?

Surely,
I don't know how to play Soviet and never use T-34, but ladder rank magically rise to top 30

Maybe I need to L2P more learning how shit are T-34s and SU85s

Shock troops and su 85s, kv8s, is152s, is2 that squad wipe, 2 man sniper teams, 6 man support crews. These things mean you are always at a disadvantage until you make an advantage. You cant fight on equal terms with Sovs, due to smaller squads vs largers squads, and German armor not having anywhere near the anti infantry effectiveness of Sov armor(especially considering German armor is already facing larger numbers of inf).

I don't agree that you can't fight Soviets on equal terms.
6 man squads are the same as higher armoured 4 man squads in their ability to mitigate small arms fire. The difference becomes apparent in explosive damage however, like mortars or tank shells, in that the 6 man squad, while easier to hit, can better avoid a squad wipe. The 4 man German squad is harder to hit but any hit is likely to be more severe.

Add to that the ever present clumping of models that units seem to so prefer and you're set for headaches.

[...] soviets rely on quantity and germans on quality.

More than that, I'd say the Soviets rely on specialisation and the Germans on versatility, as is so immediately apparent by their respective building/technology structures.

Surely,
I don't know how to play Soviet and never use T-34, but ladder rank magically rise to top 30

Maybe I need to L2P more learning how shit are T-34s and SU85s

If the game were balanced for the top 100 then the game wouldn't have been made.

If the game were balanced for the top 100 then the game wouldn't have been made.

That game exists, and it is called Starcraft II

To Rommel: I agree soviets are a little OP because of some weapons they have that are OP. They are not unbeatable tough, not by far. The only difference is that you, as german faction player, need to work more and have a better micro in order to win than they need. That is a reality recognized by manny, rejected and unaccepted by others. This existed also in COH 1 where it was easier to play Americans than PE for instance. It's verry hard to balance such a game like Coh.
Do not justify your nickname. Rommel was not a nazi, he was a werchmacht general later a feldmareschal and a tactical genius obtaining verry much with so little. He was admired even by his enemies so no shame if you admire him as a tactician.

To others: Look guys, looking at Porygon stats everything is so obvious: YOU NEED TO WORK MORE WITH GERMANS in order to reach sometimes a lower place in the german ladder that you would obtain with soviets in the soviet ladder from just a few games played. This is not just his case, just browse the ladders, there are hundreds of examples.

So obvious is the conclusion also: IT IS MORE DIFFICULT TO PLAY WITH GERMAN FACTION. That is why the game feels unbalanced right now, but I don't think that the difference between these factions it's so big, a few intelligent adjustments will set the things right.

To others: Look guys, looking at Porygon stats everything is so obvious: YOU NEED TO WORK MORE WITH GERMANS in order to reach sometimes a lower place in the german ladder that you would obtain with soviets in the soviet ladder from just a few games played. This is not just his case, just browse the ladders, there are hundreds of examples.

So obvious is the conclusion also: IT IS MORE DIFFICULT TO PLAY WITH GERMAN FACTION. That is why the game feels unbalanced right now, but I don't think that the difference between these factions it's so big, a few intelligent adjustments will set the things right.

Another "obvious" conclusion would be that there are more German players than Soviets thus it's harder to reach the higher ranks.

It's quite easy to make the numbers say what you want them to say, isn't? ;-)

Another "obvious" conclusion would be that there are more German players than Soviets thus it's harder to reach the higher ranks.

It's quite easy to make the numbers say what you want them to say, isn't? ;-)

Actually, you are wrong by a mile. It is psichologically proved that people tend to choose difficult games, because they are constantly requiring new solutions and your brain needs to be constantly challanged. If you had an easy win, you would play a month or two and quit the game or the faction for another. That is why the majority of players are playing with germans. Because the most difficult a faction is, the most addictive it gets. It forces you to constantly find new and better solutions.

Here it's your explanation. You're wellcome.

Another thing, and it's no bullshit:

I have a friend and sometimes we are playing together. He has not too much time, he played EXCLUSIVELY with germans (maybe 2 times a week).
From one at most 2 weeks he is playing with soviets on 1v1 in order to learn their weaknesses. He did this:
Played with Advanced Warfare commander, just spamed cons, give them ppshs, plant 1 or 2 mines, zero T build, just waited for T34/85. Yes, as simple as that.
He won, and won, and do you know what place in the german ladder managed to stop him? I repeat, he NEVER played with soviets before. Place 1300. Until there he managed to reach before being beaten. With ZERO soviet play before, with 2 days (2 hours /day = 4 hours)/week play.

I was speachless.

Surely,
I don't know how to play Soviet and never use T-34, but ladder rank magically rise to top 30

Maybe I need to L2P more learning how shit are T-34s and SU85s

1v1 German Rank

7.akosi 20-2 .909 -1

Does this mean that Germans are OP, because he is rank 7 from 22 games only? way better stat than yours

Just pointing out that your argument is flawed, not agreeing or disagreeing

1v1 German Rank

7.akosi 20-2 .909 -1

Does this mean that Germans are OP, because he is rank 7 from 22 games only? way better stat than yours

Just pointing out that your argument is flawed, not agreeing or disagreeing

Just FYI, he reset his stat or bought a new copy for smurfing, his number of games wasn't low like that
I can easily reach higher if I do that, back in vCOH, I can play 2 days bringing a PE smurf into top 100 and US/wehr into top 200, and I had 6 smurf all together

Just FYI, he reset his stat or bought a new copy for smurfing, his number of games wasn't low like that
I can easily reach higher if I do that, back in vCOH, I can play 2 days bringing a PE smurf into top 100 and US/wehr into top 200, and I had 6 smurf all together

I know, just saying that it doesn't mean Germans are OP or Soviets because single player is doing better with one or other faction.

I remember COH days, if you get lucky you can jump very high in few games with smurf.

Because system would try to pair you vs your true rank even tho you are smurfing

I know, just saying that it doesn't mean Germans are OP or Soviets because single player is doing better with one or other faction.

I remember COH days, if you get lucky you can jump very high in few games with smurf.

Because system would try to pair you vs your true rank even tho you are smurfing

but doesn't change that Soviet are easier to play and more mistake forgiving.

but doesn't change that Soviet are easier to play and more mistake forgiving.

not really, soviet infantry play is more forgiving, however german armor play is more forgiving. Okay, so you got into a bad situation with your cons, say a brummbar is right next to you, just retreat, more often than not, cons will live. However, say you acidentally got into a bad situation with your t-34 or is-2,you are dead. There is nothing that can save you. Got into a bad situation with your PZ IV? Pop smoke and blitz away.
So yeah, this is how the game is supposed to work, soviets have better inf, germans got better armor.
That said, there are some things that germans have that could use a buff.
(stug E, scout car). Other than that, i think the game is fairly balanced. Buffing the scout car should fix the soviet sniper problem.

not really, soviet infantry play is more forgiving, however german armor play is more forgiving. Okay, so you got into a bad situation with your cons, say a brummbar is right next to you, just retreat, more often than not, cons will live. However, say you acidentally got into a bad situation with your t-34 or is-2,you are dead. There is nothing that can save you. Got into a bad situation with your PZ IV? Pop smoke and blitz away.
So yeah, this is how the game is supposed to work, soviets have better inf, germans got better armor.
That said, there are some things that germans have that could use a buff.
(stug E, scout car). Other than that, i think the game is fairly balanced. Buffing the scout car should fix the soviet sniper problem.

Who can play tanks if Soviet just rollover the early game?
(aka my coOoOoOoOoOoOoOons strat since launch, with maphack and PPSH since latest patch)

but doesn't change that Soviet are easier to play and more mistake forgiving.

Well, I find it to be true as well. Especially in early game

Late game I find Soviets to be harder to play and less mistake forgiving.

But I think the big factor is play styles. Some Soviet strats and builds are very effective but very unforgiving if mistakes are made.