How to further improve coh2

To me a great deal of things are okay but currently I think the way rear armour works is rubbish. Basically it makes flanking pointless because tanks like the T-34 which are forced to flank still can't pen very easily units like the Tiger from the rear. It's hilariously depressing going to all the trouble to flank a tiger (because ramming ain't an option, I want to give my tanks some vet at some point) and they just bounce off all day. Same goes for other German heavies. I'm not sure about Soviet heavies, since most german tanks seem to be able to pen their rears fine but that's probably my experience and isn't backed up by numbers.

To me a great deal of things are okay but currently I think the way rear armour works is rubbish. Basically it makes flanking pointless because tanks like the T-34 which are forced to flank still can't pen very easily units like the Tiger from the rear. It's hilariously depressing going to all the trouble to flank a tiger (because ramming ain't an option, I want to give my tanks some vet at some point) and they just bounce off all day. Same goes for other German heavies. I'm not sure about Soviet heavies, since most german tanks seem to be able to pen their rears fine but that's probably my experience and isn't backed up by numbers.

Yep, flanking is horrendously unrewarding for the soviets. You get maybe a 20% increase inn pen, but your tanks become super vunerable to the enemies arriving support. I often take more casualties then my enemies in succesful flanks. Even if you manage to catch them with no support and completely from behind tigers and panthers can usually take out 2 T34s before they go down.

Anyone who says that T34s are good flankers simply don't play soviets enough. Their best function is to stay behind the at guns and keep infantry and tanks away.

CoH2 community at its finest, we run around in circles over 5 posts over something we understand what is being implied yet have to correct each other over the correct buzz word. #justneckbeardthings

Agreed. Seriously you know exactly what was being addressed. RANDOM kills, incorrectly called "crits", but the outcome is the same to the player. The same thing happens with the second member of the Soviet sniper squad who can occasionally randomly get a kill making it possible for a Soviet sniper team to wipe a squad with 2 remaining men.

*Other requests*
Please, please, please fix vehicle pathing. I am so tired of HT spinning in circles in combat.

Change mine crit system to be more fair and to be like COH1. One mine, moderate engine damage, more than two possible for heavy engine damage or immobilize.

Counter barrage to do something, anything.

AC to be useful.

Also, provide something for Soviets to deal with Elefants efficiently. Doctrinal Artillery is reasonable but the Doc Elefants come in also has recon and Stuka bomb strike, which can take out arty after one barrage, that is something that really needs to be looked at. As well as the general thing of heavy centre piece tanks also having super doctrinal arty call-ins etc...

image

I can't tell if you are berating or agreeing with me. Thumbs up for posting an edgy meme picture whilst contributing nothing to the discussion though. Isn't that what some people have been called out for doing and subsequently banned? Lol the hypocrisy around here.

Agree, HappyPhace, there are good points made in this post, but discussion always devolves into some sort of picture gibberish.

I think Relic needs to do much more of what they did with the advanced warfare commander. Essentially they halfed the effectiveness of the major abilities while also halving the cost. The result is abilities that can be very useful to turn a situation but on the other hand not so powerful as to ruin the game/unfairly destroy your opponent.
I see the depth of this game under the surface scratching to get out, there are so many great abilities that people could use to make interesting, unique and effective strategies. Unfortunately the problem is that most of these commander/vet abilities are unusable to be utilized for the most part because they do not fit into the economy of CoH2, they are simply too expensive to use to great effect especially on the german side.

Take the Storm Docrtine for instance tactical movement and relief infantry could be great abilities for unique strategies within this doctrine but you simply cannot get enough munitions to use the abilities and the same goes for most commanders. The other problem lies in the fact that once you do get the required resource saved up to meet the requirements of the commander ability whether it be call in tanks or some sort of artillery it is often op and ruins the game.

What they did with the advanced warfare commander addressed both these issues effectively, creating abilities that r useful and actually attainable within the economy as well as nerfing them enough that they are still great abilities but are not unfair and cannot be relied upon to obliterate your opponent.

Imo if relic can create more content along these guidelines and perhaps even tweak past content to more resemble the model represented in the AdvancedWarfareTactics commander they will truly be making the best step possible to really opening up this game to dynamic/fun/tactical gameplay that the fans have come to expect from Company of Heroes.

The main issue that bothers me first and foremost about the current build is the fact that most games are still for the most part ultimately decided by tank call ins. It has gotten bad enough that you see many games these days where the players are foregoing tech altogether and simply spamming one tier until call ins. I hate this, to me it is extremely boring

I can't tell if you are berating or agreeing with me. Thumbs up for posting an edgy meme picture whilst contributing nothing to the discussion though. Isn't that what some people have been called out for doing and subsequently banned? Lol the hypocrisy around here.

apparently i was being tooo subtle . I was was saying that its not just the coh2 forums its everywhere on the internet. heck its not just the internet its also in that place outside your house. i think they call it the real world or so ive heard never been there.

also i didn't make those decisions to ban them also these said people were probably not banned for 1 or 2 posts. (there is a reason I made my avatar a troll, I'm starting to feel like one MVGame)

ps: also i think the image is fucking hilarious (so fuck you )

PSS: back on topic people

some of these things are in the works, thanks for the feedback everyone

That is awesome news

Not only is rear armour not rewarding enough in terms of minimal extra penetration and damage, but also just that when the talk is moving it has much less accuracy while moving. So whilst a tank is trying to flank it means that it will miss many of its shots, whilst the stationary tank will have much higher accuracy.

Also the fact that flanking a tank means that your tank might get caught by a Panzerfaust or AT grenade that will damage the ensure and absolutely ensures that it will die with no escape.

Rear armour should give guaranteed penetration or offer more damage. That will reward micro and creative play, which just really is discouraged more than anything.

I think Relic needs to do much more of what they did with the advanced warfare commander. Essentially they halfed the effectiveness of the major abilities while also halving the cost. The result is abilities that can be very useful to turn a situation but on the other hand not so powerful as to ruin the game/unfairly destroy your opponent.
I see the depth of this game under the surface scratching to get out, there are so many great abilities that people could use to make interesting, unique and effective strategies. Unfortunately the problem is that most of these commander/vet abilities are unusable to be utilized for the most part because they do not fit into the economy of CoH2, they are simply too expensive to use to great effect especially on the german side.

Take the Storm Docrtine for instance tactical movement and relief infantry could be great abilities for unique strategies within this doctrine but you simply cannot get enough munitions to use the abilities and the same goes for most commanders. The other problem lies in the fact that once you do get the required resource saved up to meet the requirements of the commander ability whether it be call in tanks or some sort of artillery it is often op and ruins the game.

What they did with the advanced warfare commander addressed both these issues effectively, creating abilities that r useful and actually attainable within the economy as well as nerfing them enough that they are still great abilities but are not unfair and cannot be relied upon to obliterate your opponent.

Imo if relic can create more content along these guidelines and perhaps even tweak past content to more resemble the model represented in the AdvancedWarfareTactics commander they will truly be making the best step possible to really opening up this game to dynamic/fun/tactical gameplay that the fans have come to expect from Company of Heroes.

The main issue that bothers me first and foremost about the current build is the fact that most games are still for the most part ultimately decided by tank call ins. It has gotten bad enough that you see many games these days where the players are foregoing tech altogether and simply spamming one tier until call ins. I hate this, to me it is extremely boring

+1

Actually molotovs are not FINE. Im not saying they are OP, yes they are easy to dodge but they are a nobrainer.. there almost always a good time to molotov.. there is no tradeoff and it denies basicly buildings and strong defensive positions very early in the game making an early game interesting basicly impossible.

Molotov upgrade should first of all be a expensive fuel upgrade so as i said, its not a nobrainer to upgrade.. make it more like grenades in vcoh, everyone has bitched there is no global upgrade in coh2.. well there are but they are so cheap everyone gets them without thought. Also what does it cost right now? 10 munitions?? plz make it alteast 30 munitions so as i said its not a nobrainer to always throw a molotov.

But most of all i want them removed and replaced with an ordinary grenade. The damage over time is so hard to balance when it comes early in the game. As i said it denies all buildings and strong defensive positions basicly from the start of the game.. not good game design

I think Relic needs to do much more of what they did with the advanced warfare commander. Essentially they halfed the effectiveness of the major abilities while also halving the cost. The result is abilities that can be very useful to turn a situation but on the other hand not so powerful as to ruin the game/unfairly destroy your opponent.
I see the depth of this game under the surface scratching to get out, there are so many great abilities that people could use to make interesting, unique and effective strategies. Unfortunately the problem is that most of these commander/vet abilities are unusable to be utilized for the most part because they do not fit into the economy of CoH2, they are simply too expensive to use to great effect especially on the german side.

Take the Storm Docrtine for instance tactical movement and relief infantry could be great abilities for unique strategies within this doctrine but you simply cannot get enough munitions to use the abilities and the same goes for most commanders. The other problem lies in the fact that once you do get the required resource saved up to meet the requirements of the commander ability whether it be call in tanks or some sort of artillery it is often op and ruins the game.

What they did with the advanced warfare commander addressed both these issues effectively, creating abilities that r useful and actually attainable within the economy as well as nerfing them enough that they are still great abilities but are not unfair and cannot be relied upon to obliterate your opponent.

Imo if relic can create more content along these guidelines and perhaps even tweak past content to more resemble the model represented in the AdvancedWarfareTactics commander they will truly be making the best step possible to really opening up this game to dynamic/fun/tactical gameplay that the fans have come to expect from Company of Heroes.

The main issue that bothers me first and foremost about the current build is the fact that most games are still for the most part ultimately decided by tank call ins. It has gotten bad enough that you see many games these days where the players are foregoing tech altogether and simply spamming one tier until call ins. I hate this, to me it is extremely boring

At first I want to say that I totally agree with your post. I want to add that IMO the new abilities in the new "Close Air Support" commander are also going into the totally right direction. The shorter and especially cheaper anti Infantry strafe fits an exciting gameplay so much more than for example the abusive long and expensive Opel Strafe. This new kind of abilities work as a spicey support of your non-donctrinal CORE units without having a too big influence. Same goes to the short recon run. These two abilites are kinda taken from vCOH's airborne doctrine. They reward skill in terms of hitting the right timing etc.

At first I want to say that I totally agree with your post. I want to add that IMO the new abilities in the new "Close Air Support" commander are also going into the totally right direction. The shorter and especially cheaper anti Infantry strafe fits an exciting gameplay so much more than for example the abusive long and expensive Opel Strafe. This new kind of abilities work as a spicey support of your non-donctrinal CORE units without having a too big influence. Same goes to the short recon run. These two abilites are kinda taken from vCOH's airborne doctrine. They reward skill in terms of hitting the right timing etc.

Again +1. The thing i keep seeing from everyone now is CORE units. When i'm playing soviets i barely need any of of my main army units when i have so many choices for instant call on. Teching up needs to be a main part of the game but as people have already said many people nearly forego this completely.

I think Relic needs to do much more of what they did with the advanced warfare commander. Essentially they halfed the effectiveness of the major abilities while also halving the cost. The result is abilities that can be very useful to turn a situation but on the other hand not so powerful as to ruin the game/unfairly destroy your opponent.
I see the depth of this game under the surface scratching to get out, there are so many great abilities that people could use to make interesting, unique and effective strategies. Unfortunately the problem is that most of these commander/vet abilities are unusable to be utilized for the most part because they do not fit into the economy of CoH2, they are simply too expensive to use to great effect especially on the german side.

Take the Storm Docrtine for instance tactical movement and relief infantry could be great abilities for unique strategies within this doctrine but you simply cannot get enough munitions to use the abilities and the same goes for most commanders. The other problem lies in the fact that once you do get the required resource saved up to meet the requirements of the commander ability whether it be call in tanks or some sort of artillery it is often op and ruins the game.

What they did with the advanced warfare commander addressed both these issues effectively, creating abilities that r useful and actually attainable within the economy as well as nerfing them enough that they are still great abilities but are not unfair and cannot be relied upon to obliterate your opponent.

Imo if relic can create more content along these guidelines and perhaps even tweak past content to more resemble the model represented in the AdvancedWarfareTactics commander they will truly be making the best step possible to really opening up this game to dynamic/fun/tactical gameplay that the fans have come to expect from Company of Heroes.

The main issue that bothers me first and foremost about the current build is the fact that most games are still for the most part ultimately decided by tank call ins. It has gotten bad enough that you see many games these days where the players are foregoing tech altogether and simply spamming one tier until call ins. I hate this, to me it is extremely boring

Very well put, you summed up my feelings on the current state of things quite well. I fully agree that the Advanced Warfare Tactics was a step in the right direction in terms of how commander abilities fit within the game. I feel like many of the vanilla German commanders that came at launch need an overhaul. To many abilities that are either not economical or not useful enough to use. Basically everything you've said here is spot on take my +1

To the OP, I think you have presented some great suggestions. We are looking into a number of these items already, the only challenge is time and resources. Our goal over the next 6 months is to really step up the tactical and strategic depth of the game.

Keep the great feedback coming.

Please reset the randomteams-ladders. Otherwise the teamladders will stay frozen.

More in this tread. http://www.coh2.org/topic/14607/re-at-stats

GENERAL THINGS
1. I would like Relic to implement a "level" ranking feature as it was in vanilla COH, based on already existing ELO. Lvl 1-20 it would be fine. I am not necessarely a "lobby" suporter, I think automaching is ok, but I guess manny of former COH players miss it;
2. I don't see any reason for changing AT nades or pzfaust effects; same with Ram. Hell, it doesn't need to be JUST skill in a game, it also must be LUCK, and FUN. That is what makes this game special. Otherwise, If we wanted JUST skill, we played SC2 and not COH 2, isn't it? Just imagine for instance no AT gun, soldier or tank will ever miss its shot and allways hit bullseye, like in SC2. Would you play this game anymore? Remember forum guys, that is why you love COH2. Cause is different of any RTS game you know. Let it like this.
3. Relic please don't come anymore with new doctrines that are not sufficiently tested. People will buy them because most of them are OP and help them to obtain victory; then some guys are screaming on forums, and from OP they are made shit in the next patch. So the product you paid for, there is no longer the same. I am a diversity fan, I like new features and new doctrines, new units also, but please do it more rarely and better balanced so you won't have to change it afterwards;
4. Good job with the game balance, thank you for your efforts, I think in present the game is very close to what it should be from balance point of view. I know it's more complicated, but try to extend the balance concept to more than 1v1 also.

TECHNICAL THINGS:
1. Maybe you should reduce shock troops at 5 men unit while keeping their actual efficiency unchanged. They are an elite unit, right? Elite soldiers should be fewer.
2. The garrisoned units are still to powerfull. I didn't understand why you increased the garrisoned unit defense in last patch. Not a good idea, in my opinion from 2 reasons: Soviets resist better while garrisoned because they are more in a squad even their defense is weaker. Numer 2: soviets have efficient early weapons to kill or flush out garrison units while germans don't. How manny morar/rifle grenades shots for a garrisoned maxim?!
3. Mechanized groups are too expensive. I wouldn't mind to have that sdkfz's armor a little weaker, or to ad some amo to the general cost, but please decrease manpower or fuel costs at list. Nobody use the mechanized groups in a real hard game.

Thank you.

I don't really understand why the Relic staffers are flocking here or praising his suggestions. Not only is his grasp of how the game works really bad judging by how many factual errors his post has, he's effectively just complaining about how he can't micro out of molotovs and thinks cons should be nerfed.

Adding to my previous post:

- please do something about prioritizing target engine. There were some situations that I adn other people on this forum met, when tanks for instance, while engaged by a tank and by an infantry unit, chose to shoot at infantry. Or At guns chosing to shoot at infantry instead tanks.
- related to Mechanized groops: another option would be to allow reinforcements from them. That will begin to justify their price, though not entirely. In adition to reinforcements, allowing them to come at fewer CPs, will justify their current price maybe.