Aftermath Update Impressions Thread

IL2 really doesent feel nerfed, all thats happened is that its gotten cheaper.

More and more I play with T34/85 commanders...i'm even more [overzealously] convinced 9CP is way too late. Had several matches where I see multiple stugs, or ostwinds, or p4s hit the field 5min+ earlier before a T34/85 hits the field. Coupled with the long recharge time, you're forced build T3 or T4 to have any armored presence on the field. Should be 8CP like the KV1.

First, commanders are not meant to overshadow the core army or its tech. They were designed to supplement the player's army rather than define it.

in other words, youre SUPPOSED to be building t3 or t4. the strategy of saving that teching cost to spam more call ins is exactly what relic wanted to address.

Eh? Used the Advanced Tactics commander moments ago and the strafing run is a fraction of the deadliness of what it used to be. Ex: it no longer squad wipe, the mortar halftrack it targeted didn't gloriously explode (not sure if penetration value was adjusted), but it dealt a significant amount of damage to the Pio and MG close to it without wiping them. It's now decent for it's cost and not grinningly awesome(or horrifying) as it used to be.

in other words, youre SUPPOSED to be building t3 or t4. the strategy of saving that teching cost to spam more call ins is exactly what relic wanted to address.

Sure, which you could do at 8CP too, same as the KV1 CP requirement. They serve similar roles now as support to SU85/Infantry/ATG (damage dealer, or damage supporter each with it's own caveat). Exception being that a KV1 would last longer in the field than a T34/85 respectively.

An IL2 just strafed through my base with 4 or 5 units in it and since I could reinforce them it didn't manage to kill any of them I think it would have been a desaster before.

To the 222. I don't see how it's useless. Sure it's hard to keep alive but when it can change the outcome of an infantry engagement as a qick supportunit just by doing some damage so that I'm still standing while the opponent has to retreat that's at least something in my book. Especially relativly early in game. I don't do so well with them either yet though^^ One should just know which situations are bad situations to be in as a 222 and stay the hell away. Seems like a situation where skill and good judgement is important, yay
Can't it even block MG fire? I think I did that once. Might be wrong.
Edit: Minefield in retreatpath ftw.

Just a few points to hopefully clarify the intents behind some of the changes.

First, commanders are not meant to overshadow the core army or its tech. They were designed to supplement the player's army rather than define it. Keep in mind 1 CP is on average achieved by the 0:45 mark in the game. Overall, this is the first step of many to come which will impact pacing and tech progression within the game.

Changes to the 222 were made to better balance the risk/reward aspect of the unit. As noted by many within the community, the unit is extremely fragile making a high munition investment much harder to justify as a player. By lowering the damage and cost of the upgrade, the unit has a lower associated risk but still performs its harassment role as intended. This unit is ideal for hunting down Katyusha's or supporting a defense against an early T70.

Although this patch was relatively small, the larger changes discussed in recent SNF casts will be coming in the following months. The first batch of changes has already been incorporated into the closed beta where it is being rigorously tested.

Although changes may not make complete sense now, when looking at the broader picture and our plans for the coming months they do fit into a defined context. For now, all we can ask is for a bit of patience and trust. As we finalize the schedule, I'll be sure to drop some hints about upcoming updates.

Thank for your work.

PS: And ballance according to real game, no pursuant to on side whiners.

An IL2 just strafed through my base with 4 or 5 units in it and since I could reinforce them it didn't manage to kill any of them I think it would have been a desaster before.

To the 222. I don't see how it's useless. Sure it's hard to keep alive but when it can change the outcome of an infantry engagement as a qick supportunit just by doing some damage so that I'm still standing while the opponent has to retreat that's at least something in my book. Especially relativly early in game. I don't do so well with them either yet though^^ One should just know which situations are bad situations to be in as a 222 and stay the hell away. Seems like a situation where skill and good judgement is important, yay
Can't it even block MG fire? I think I did that once. Might be wrong.
Edit: Minefield in retreatpath ftw.

It can kinda block MG fire, I am not sure if it is only with allied mgs or also with your own. Also I think it only happens with the incendary rounds, I blew up one or two allied scoutcars with that already.

I like the battle servers, PPSh change is horrible and whoever thought about this idea needs to justify it.

They come in at 3CP, the same time or even after PGs and vehicular counters hits the field. They're only an issue if you fight them head on with a vanilla Gren unit. They're like Penals, but more lethal close range as opposed to far range.

Yes, exactly, they put out penal-like dps with 3xppsh. A 240mp, huge utility T0 unit has as much dps as a T1, 360MP, anti-inf only squad. This leads to fun situations like vet2 cons always winning against vet1/0 PGs 1vs1, and eating grens for breakfast. When the only reasonable "counter" to ppsh cons early on in the game is a flameht, a horribly overpowered unit by itself, you know there's an issue.

Damage that's close to unupgraded Penals without flamers. It's already been discussed thoroughly, but (identity crisis stricken) Penals cost too much for their worth. Grens are huge utility unit too after building T1 and upgrading Battle Phase. Molotovs/AT Grens have to be researched too.

There's no such thing as early PPSH cons. It's a mid game upgrade; which halftracks, scoutcars, pgs have already hit the field. PPSHCons, like AssGrens, have to get close to do any semblance of damage. I've never seen a non vetted PGren get wasted by them. Unupgraded Grens maybe. A PG can nearly stand toe to toe with Shocks because their DPS is higher. Cons have 1 armor and half the amount of PPSHs as Shocks. I've never seen them win against PGs.

A PG can nearly stand toe to toe with Shocks because their DPS is higher.

Clearly you're not playing the same game.

Clearly you're not playing the same game.

What's hard to comprehend about PGs nearly standing toe to toe with Shocks? I didn't say they can defeat, nor they're even to Shocks. Vanilla PGs can deal an ok amount of damage behind green cover before shocks close in within their effective range before slugging it out point blank, which PGs lose in the long run.

Why are you choosing to debate this, Shocks were moved to 2CP. Debate is PPSHCons vs PGrens, which PPSHCons will lose against the double DPS and .5 armor of PGs.

Clearly you're not playing the same game.

Even vet 2 PG stands no chance against vet 0 shocks

Even vet 2 PG stands no chance against vet 0 shocks

Here we go again QQ my pgrens can't beat more expensive shocks.


Care to wager how even a vet 3 t70 or t34/76 does vs a panther? Here's a hint .... They lose. Does that make it broken? No. Please stop crying about shocks. It's getting old. Everyone knows they're good AI. Move along

I like all the changes but the PPSH. Penals are now super niche.

480 mp 60 muni gives you the fire power of a gren squad and shock troops with oorah and at nade and molo........yeahhhhhh.

They want 3 ppsh fine...50 muni. Anyone with the least bit of skill is always now better off with 2x scripts then 1x shocks.

I play mostly Soviet fyi.

On the really postive note Tiger Ace can be taken down as easily as vet 3 Tiger which has brought me back to COH2!

Here we go again QQ my pgrens can't beat more expensive shocks.


Care to wager how even a vet 3 t70 or t34/76 does vs a panther? Here's a hint .... They lose. Does that make it broken? No. Please stop crying about shocks. It's getting old. Everyone knows they're good AI. Move along

that example is bad, very bad.

PQ, you can't be serious with the 222 vs T70 comment. You realize a single T70 can now kill 4+ 222s without micro? Probably significantly more if you timed T70 shots between range and sight blockers

You sound like a complete Imbecile he didn't say it is designed to single handedly defeat a t70 he said designed to be used in conjuction with other anti-t70 measures such as at guns and Grenadiers with Fausts.

And used in this way it is very useful and does very nice support damage agianst t70's why dont you actually play and try some of what hes really talking about before you go off spewing a bunch of crap intending to belittle the intelligence of others.

If you can't see, imagine or take advantage of the value of a scout car in support of other t70 counters whether soft or hard I dont know what your doing posting on this forum or playing COH 2 for that matter.

This is also a nice change in relationship to Russian scout cars I have always Felt Russian scout cars were a little out of line in comparison to how easily they die to a German upgun this interaction just became a little more balanced and just opened up the early scout car option a bit for Russians which is a welcome change IMO.

Here we go again QQ my pgrens can't beat more expensive shocks.


Care to wager how even a vet 3 t70 or t34/76 does vs a panther? Here's a hint .... They lose. Does that make it broken? No. Please stop crying about shocks. It's getting old. Everyone knows they're good AI. Move along

COH was a game of micro that the unit cost is less revelant to its killing power.
In good hands cheaper units could win engagement against high cost unit.

Example:
Rifles could win KCH with good covers and spreading
Volks, pushing bikes could fend off rifles flank
Cheap Volks could win expensive Tommies
221 SC can fuck up Tommies, 222 AC could keep Rifles at bay

Shocks? It just click, move and something automatic die, no risk at all, easy mode hur?

Love the PG quote, "Asshole, we are panzergrenadier, not panzer!"
But shocks? "Panzer on legs"

Do I need to say a 2 vet 3 hotchkiss (2 def 1 off) can fuck up Pershing?

Wow Im glad I didnt shell out good money for those commanders that just got the axe. Talk about adding insult to injury. I must be reading these patch notes wrong. Does it actually say that they have delayed any infantry that can possibly stand up to german infantry until its too late for them to have any affect on the game? Every SINGLE russian elite infantry callin? So we are now guaranteed not to get any decent infantry out until the flaming halftrack counter is already on the field? That seems fair since we all know germans are weak late game to balance out the russians newly implemented early game weakness. Just hold out russians until you get your free ultimate tank at the end! Oh wait russians dont get one of those..

However Im sure since this patch is all about BALANCE they balanced this neutering of the russian army by delaying the german assault grens to at LEAST 3 CP right? I mean it would be unthinkable for Relic to be so biased towards one faction that they would give one side elite infantry up front and make the other side wait until mid game wouldnt it?

Well Im CERTAIN they nerfed the tiger ace right? I mean everyone complained about that unit even german players! Well lets see now. Tiger ace comes out sooner, costs less resources and is FASTER?! Faster really? The ONE way to beat a tiger ace was to lay mines outside your base while it was lumbering across the battlefield and now we have LESS time to to that? This is an early april Fools joke right? If so its a good one. You had me goin...

COH was a game of micro that the unit cost is less revelant to its killing power.
In good hands cheaper units could win engagement against high cost unit.

Example:
Rifles could win KCH with good covers and spreading
Volks, pushing bikes could fend off rifles flank
Cheap Volks could win expensive Tommies
221 SC can fuck up Tommies, 222 AC could keep Rifles at bay

Shocks? It just click, move and something automatic die, no risk at all, easy mode hur?


Do I need to say a 2 vet 3 hotchkiss (2 def 1 off) can fuck up Pershing?

I often kill Shocks with PG's, I even kill ass grens with Cons without ppsh or molotov.

P.S. I am sure you forgotten that shocks die from snipers, AC's, tanks, HMG's etc just like you described in your version of VCOH