Aftermath Update Impressions Thread

I often kill Shocks with PG's, I even kill ass grens with Cons without ppsh or molotov.

P.S. I am sure you forgotten that shocks die from snipers, AC's, tanks, HMG's etc just like you described in your version of VCOH

The second one is easy, it is just keeping in range.
PG 1v1 and win shocks is impossible, or just RNG god smile upon you.

Of course I know snipers/flamed ht win shocks, but that means it was forcing the player to get the hard counters, vCOH was never like that. If I want, I can do all crazy strat like 6 Volks to StuG IV or 7 PG to Hotchkiss or 5 221 SC start without worrying a M8 fuck up all my army. Creative soft counters are missing in COH2

A good trick I've tried vs. shocks is to use a halftrack, even an upgraded one, to keep shocks from getting close to your grens is to just block them the same way you'd use a bike in vCOH.

Unfortunately you can't do this with a 222 because if they focus fire it, or even toss a grenade, it takes a ton of damage quickly. It's also total crap that shock grenades do damage to armored cars and halftracks.

This is one of the things I hate about COH2, some of the light vehicles should not take as much damage from small arms fire, specifically the T2 Ostheer vehicles. Only jeeps, bikes and the PE armored car and scout car would be easily damaged by small arms fire in vCOH, which was fine in the case of the PE AC because it was a beast of a unit available very early and the others were utility, scouting or pushing units. The unupgraded Ostheer halftrack and scout car do not have as much DPS so I don't see why they should take so much damage when there are plenty of other counters available.

Unfortunately, I don't think it's something they can easily fix, they don't have vCOH's target tables that allows such tweaking.

The second one is easy, it is just keeping in range.
PG 1v1 and win shocks is impossible, or just RNG god smile upon you.

Of course I know snipers/flamed ht win shocks, but that means it was forcing the player to get the hard counters, vCOH was never like that. If I want, I can do all crazy strat like 6 Volks to StuG IV or 7 PG to Hotchkiss or 5 221 SC start without worrying a M8 fuck up all my army. Creative soft counters are missing in COH2

Let me give you a hint. You will often kill 1-2 shocks sometimes even 3 that approach PG's without losing single PG model. (from green cover, and keep your distance. like you would do with cons)
You don't need to stick around and engage in close combat after that. Shocks are quite expensive and MP bleed isn't insignificant.
Point is to win the game, not every single engagement

Yes Shocks are mad, Yes nothing can survive 1v1 fight vs Shocks in close combat. But they are expensive and they have counters against which they are powerless. (Flame HT, snipers, flame eng are quite good trade of if you burn 1-2 shock trooper and retreat, scout cars)
most of these units are cheaper than Shock unit.

Complaining about PG's and Grens not being able to stand up to Shocks is like complaining about Cons not being able to win 1v1 vs assGrens in close combat

I completely agree with being forced into using units by opponent. Not just shocks, entire game is designed like that

It's like a Kindergarden here. Most of you did not play one game with the new patch but are still bitching. WTF is this, WTF is that??
Bravo to all of you (who are bitching), nice Community we have. Keep it up "Bitches".

+1 You are exactly Right these are all great and needed changes and fit perfectly into the context of the game if you have half a brain and actually care about real balance and are not just a Biased one faction wonder getting your wins by pure abuse which most the guys in this thread are clearly exactly that, and nothing more. Everything they are saying here should be completely disregarded as the incoherent gibberish that it is.

+1 You are exactly Right these are all great and needed changes and fit perfectly into the context of the game if you have half a brain and actually care about real balance and are not just a Biased one faction wonder getting your wins by pure abuse which most the guys in this thread are clearly exactly that, and nothing more. Everything they are saying here should be completely disregarded as the incoherent gibberish that it is.

You are 100% correct. It was desperately needed to move the 45mm at gun to 2cp. It was obviously single handedly destroying the balance and the game as a whole.

Get real kid. Some changes are good some are just silly. Are you sure you aren't just adding to the "gibberish"?

i dont care for it, not like the community commander had any use, before and it sure has no use now.

do we really need to debate and bash each other for a shit commander that relic clearly not giving a shit for?

i may have said things too early but like whatever the relic guy said, patience, my young padawans.

im more interested in the ppsh changes, which i love and the fact that it comes in 3cp where by that time, german AI is less reliant on vanila grens and they will have to keep up with LMG or AI focused unit like pgrens or halftracks/scout cars.

but scout cars can do with either a armour buff or a hp buff.

IL2 Strafe: to be honest I don't see any real difference in their lethality, they just take a second or two longer to kill a squad but they still kill one extremely reliably every pass, from both standing still, on the move and from the retreat. And they cost 60 muni less now.

Try to use the IL2 strafe again. You will how it's nerfed to the ground. Damage reduce from 20 to 8 is too much here. Great work community! IL2 nerfed. What's next propaganda nerf or maybe guards?

i dont care for it, not like the community commander had any use, before and it sure has no use now.

do we really need to debate and bash each other for a shit commander that relic clearly not giving a shit for?

i may have said things too early but like whatever the relic guy said, patience, my young padawans.

im more interested in the ppsh changes, which i love and the fact that it comes in 3cp where by that time, german AI is less reliant on vanila grens and they will have to keep up with LMG or AI focused unit like pgrens or halftracks/scout cars.

but scout cars can do with either a armour buff or a hp buff.

I loved that Commander. I loved 0cp dshkas, I loved beating German MG's to choke points and mowing them down (its especially hilarious because nearly no one used the Commander so no one expected it ). I hated the changes to 1cp but I lived with it ... That commander to me was the little engine that could ... Now it can't ;(

Edit: I think the 3 ppshs are awesome too (until they get nerfed back down. Just wait it will happen. Germans will QQ enough ) the synergy all game long will be great and fits my play style perfectly

You sound like a complete Imbecile he didn't say it is designed to single handedly defeat a t70 he said designed to be used in conjuction with other anti-t70 measures such as at guns and Grenadiers with Fausts.

And used in this way it is very useful and does very nice support damage agianst t70's why dont you actually play and try some of what hes really talking about before you go off spewing a bunch of crap intending to belittle the intelligence of others.

If you can't see, imagine or take advantage of the value of a scout car in support of other t70 counters whether soft or hard I dont know what your doing posting on this forum or playing COH 2 for that matter.

This is also a nice change in relationship to Russian scout cars I have always Felt Russian scout cars were a little out of line in comparison to how easily they die to a German upgun this interaction just became a little more balanced and just opened up the early scout car option a bit for Russians which is a welcome change IMO.

Not sure why you didn't get a ban for that since it was pretty hostile.

No need to tell me how to play - I'm rank 1 2v2 for both factions and top 5 1v1. The 222 did nice support damage - after the nerf, the damage it does to a t70 is irrelevant. Instead of telling me to try it (which I have, 10+ times over the past 24 hours), why don't you go do the same thing?

PS. Incase you've forgotten, we've met on ladder 4 times, and I've crushed you all 4 times like the noob you are. Here are the replays: http://www.multiupload.nl/72ASMIJVR7

NWF: http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198007103109
Raz: http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561197961206676

First, commanders are not meant to overshadow the core army or its tech. They were designed to supplement the player's army rather than define it.

How the stupid assgren do’s fit in? They really hard to counter now. German player will always have map control and the kill con's so fast. Often on retreat, the whole squad dies.
And they are often the core army, the only army. They do define it. They are not just support, they are the army. Or does your words only for sowjet player?
I'm really upset! :-)

How the stupid assgren do’s fit in? They really hard to counter now. German player will always have map control and the kill con's so fast. Often on retreat, the whole squad dies.
And they are often the core army, the only army. They do define it. They are not just support, they are the army. Or does your words only for sowjet player?
I'm really upset! :-)

Countering assgren are freaking easy using only cons without PPSH and molotov, just spread, run when they come close.

Countering assgren are freaking easy using only cons without PPSH and molotov, just spread, run when they come close.

Yes you can counter them with a lot of micro. Sadly i'm not that good.
But how does they fit in the role, relic gave the call in units???
Sorry, doesn't make sense in my brain.Not the core army,...*headshake*

Try to use the IL2 strafe again. You will how it's nerfed to the ground. Damage reduce from 20 to 8 is too much here. Great work community! IL2 nerfed. What's next propaganda nerf or maybe guards?

I already tried it several times. The one in proper commanders mind you, not the double nerfed strafe in the radio ppsh commander everyone is spamming. While you can see that the damage was reduced because the unit being fired upon dies much slower, the plane will still kill the squad almost every time because all the damage change did was get rid of all the overkill the ability previously had, rather than actually make it unable to oneshot squads reliably.

I already tried it several times. The one in proper commanders mind you, not the double nerfed strafe in the radio ppsh commander everyone is spamming. While you can see that the damage was reduced because the unit being fired upon dies much slower, the plane will still kill the squad almost every time because all the damage change did was get rid of all the overkill the ability previously had, rather than actually make it unable to oneshot squads reliably.

Looks like fairy tales. Grenadier have 40 hp, IL2 need 5 shoots with 8 damage to kill 1 trooper. But yes it still able to squads, but only in your dreams.

I already tried it several times. The one in proper commanders mind you, not the double nerfed strafe in the radio ppsh commander everyone is spamming. While you can see that the damage was reduced because the unit being fired upon dies much slower, the plane will still kill the squad almost every time because all the damage change did was get rid of all the overkill the ability previously had, rather than actually make it unable to oneshot squads reliably.

The radio commander strafe was adjusted properly. If you move or retreat your units, you will often not even lose a model, let alone a squad.

That said, if you DON'T move the squad, you will lose it. To me this is WAD.

We discussed this last night in Sib's stream: I think Conscript Assault Package should cost the equivalent of German Grenadier weapon upgrades (50-60 munis).

Peter, your answer fits my current beef with designer hubris.

The 222 doesn't fit the role you describe. And what are we meant to do about the sniper / guards screen abuse endemic in bigger games?

A 222 with overdrive might ameliorate the massive amount of suck this unit represents. It might also help overcome the awful pathing... I have to nurse this unit constantly to keep it alive in a way the Soviet equivalent does not.

I play Sovs 50/50 and enjoy using the M5. It pisses me off the 222 is nowhere near as useful. Ost T2, as currently constituted, contains 3 viable units only.

Which is disappointing. They're able to hit the field and cap territories much faster than Soviets because they don't require a building. They should've been bumped up to 1CP to even the playing field.

you are kidding right? soviets have tier 0 conscripts and being non doctrinal is a big advantage , osttruppen cap points very slow and they die like flies ... , and assgrens have a pretty high cost for what they actually do.. no chance against a good old conscripts spam for example ..

and don't you dare to compare assgrens with shocks or guards ..

How the stupid assgren do’s fit in? They really hard to counter now. German player will always have map control and the kill con's so fast. Often on retreat, the whole squad dies.
And they are often the core army, the only army. They do define it. They are not just support, they are the army. Or does your words only for sowjet player?
I'm really upset! :-)

Penal squads are brutally effective vs assgrens and they also fail badly against the maxim (unless you ambush him just outside his base . The scout car is a good counter too

Assgrens are a high risk/reward unit unit - with skill and the right map and context they CAN have a big impact early game. Get it wrong however and you are in trouble - the rest of the commander isn't so helpful and they don't scale at all well.

Ost T2, as currently constituted, contains 3 viable units only.

Soviet T0 contains 2 viable units vs. 1 for Ost T0
Soviet T1 contains 2 viable units vs. 4 for Ost T1
Soviet T2 contains 3 viable units vs. 3 for Ost T2
Soviet T3 contains 3 viable units vs. 3 for Ost T3
Soviet T4 contains 3 viable units vs. 3 for Ost T4

Seems fairly even to me. If anything, the Germans have more viable units overall in the core tech...

Should be 8CP like the KV1.

that's exactly what i was thinking 8 cp's would have been perfect ..