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Call to action - Let's Be Awesome Together

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13 Feb 2014, 08:27 AM
#81
avatar of DerBaer

Posts: 219

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Feb 2014, 06:30 AMGreeb

One of the things that game lacks and that is really hurting the community is the impossibility of easily chat INGAME. Game lobbies would improve much more the community than streaming games, Noun.



This is so true. Everytime I play CoH2 I feel isolated and limited to my steam friendslist. I also think it's a lot harder to find new people to play with beacuse of that.
13 Feb 2014, 09:11 AM
#82
avatar of 19mila92

Posts: 21 | Subs: 1

When you can only fast forward at a replay at a limited speed, and when you can't rewind if you miss the cool thing or get it at the wrong camera angle, getting a good 10 second clip for Relic to share on Facebook is pretty tough. Making videos is hard enough without the game fighting you.

In terms of replay features compared to CoH, we had basically nothing until a little while ago when we finally got to see resources. It also doesn't help that blizzards and the generally muddy and indistinct color scheme make a lot of the clips you'd want to capture ugly in the first place. And the game's performance tanking at random times really messes with recording too.

Just throwing that out there, as someone who once made videos but who never bothered with highlights and stuff for all sorts of reasons.


+1000 the replay sistem is really broken! I have tried to make some match replay on my youtube channel but is near to the impossible focusing on the hilight of the match if we are not able to rewind!! and is pretty ridicolus that you cant!
Also the fact that you can't watch replay with a differet version from the current..

Make a functional replay sistem with rewind and other cool things would be a start point. Otherwise not it not make sense do a thread like this if the the resources available are broken

And you can't do a 60 min video on youtube, as Hans said, because no one will watch it, so the replay sistem must be more flexible and permit to cut to a part to another of the match without problems.
13 Feb 2014, 10:15 AM
#83
avatar of James Hale

Posts: 574

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Feb 2014, 01:32 AMMycelus
It'd be nice if you guys removed James Hale that thread lock happy ____ from your mod team, he really makes posting on your forums a horrible experience.

You are really something, Mycelus.

You post consistently bitter, snide remarks about the game and its developers on their own forums - never adding anything remotely constructive or substantive - and then have the audacity to spam links to a video detailing leaked beta patch notes once a developer has clearly made an effort to remove links to the previous video and a moderator has subsequently asked people not to discuss or link to then.

To top it off, you then send me abusive PMs on another forum on which we have had no prior contact, and then ask for me to be removed as a moderator in a public thread.

If you are genuinely unaware of the reasons why you have been banned or feel they are in some way unfair, then let's discuss them in private. I would ask, though, that your current pattern of behaviour be toned down a little. Assuming you enjoy CoH2 I can't see why you are determined to be banned from both of its major community forums.
13 Feb 2014, 10:35 AM
#84
avatar of GreenDevil

Posts: 394

I don't mean to be rude, and I say this will all due respect, but perhaps if the same amount of time was spent working on the game, as it took to start this thread Noun, perhaps the bugs and balance in CoH2 might be a step closer to being ironed out.

Just saying....
13 Feb 2014, 10:45 AM
#85
avatar of wuff

Posts: 1534 | Subs: 1

I don't mean to be rude, and I say this will all due respect, but perhaps if the same amount of time was spent working on the game, as it took to start this thread Noun, perhaps the bugs and balance in CoH2 might be a step closer to being ironed out.

Just saying....


I am sure the developers are not delayed by Noun doing his job.
13 Feb 2014, 10:46 AM
#86
avatar of JoshJlorde

Posts: 120

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Feb 2014, 03:07 AMNoun
This has been interpreted as an attempt to recruit people off of COH2.ORG. I can see how it could be read as that.

For that I apologize to Ami and the COH2.ORG team.

I'm happy if people create cool stuff here. A lot of you already do and that's great.


It was probably this post:

Step #4 Work With Us

We've been focusing a lot of our resources towards supporting a specific site and a specific broadcast team. The great thing about recent events is that the decision to free up our focus to be much broader has been made for us. It's an exciting time.


That probably made the people who run coh2.org take it that way.
13 Feb 2014, 10:55 AM
#87
avatar of GreenDevil

Posts: 394

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Feb 2014, 10:45 AMwuff


I am sure the developers are not delayed by Noun doing his job.


You missed my point by about a mile...
13 Feb 2014, 10:57 AM
#88
avatar of akosi

Posts: 1734

Permanently Banned
instead of selling P2W commanders you should make lobbys, ingame chat/ladders, better replay system,less rng, then coh2 will be as popular as coh1 was, and maybe Inverse will come play with us.
13 Feb 2014, 11:03 AM
#89
avatar of wuff

Posts: 1534 | Subs: 1



You missed my point by about a mile...


I'll edit this, I got your point, but to imply that the development team isn't working on the games issues is nonsense.
13 Feb 2014, 12:22 PM
#90
avatar of awa59noob
Benefactor 3110

Posts: 152

@noun
@all coh2 fans

as relic and Noun call to action i will fulfill my duty to the community and sponsor 350,00 EUR for a map making contest as a price pool. If there will be more needed and a lot of good participants it could be raised to 500,00 EUR.

Comrades lets support coh2!
13 Feb 2014, 13:14 PM
#92
avatar of Tommy

Posts: 742 | Subs: 2

Maybe this is flame bait. Oh well, a lot of this seems to be an implicit reference to TFN so I feel I ought to say my piece if nothing else.

I have several issues with what's said here. Firstly, blaming the community for 'toxicity'. Perhaps if Relic's approach to community management had been more of this new 'spread the love' message and less of the 'divide and conquer' which has been prevalent to date, it would have bred lest animosity. The Vancouver trip which was only open to a select few (myself included), the payment Ami received for SNF (which doesn't bother me personally, I knew he was going for it since months ago, I say more power to him for managing to secure it, something I thought impossible in the context of things), the increased level of exposure for certain streamers/casters over others; favoritism has been shown time and again.

I'm not trying to take the moral high ground here- I was on that Vancouver trip and I will forever be grateful to Lynx and everyone involved in spearheading it for providing what was an awesome, if surreal experience; but it was definitely the harbinger of some bad blood. I would never turn down such an insane opportunity or expect anyone else to in the name of the Greater Good, but in retrospect such selectivity is precisely what causes the toxicity you speak of.

Secondly, although I would agree there has been some 'toxic' stuff in the past, there is almost no trace of it now (mainly because there aren't enough casters/streamers left for there to be anyone to be toxic to/or with, but I'll get to that in a minute). So why bring it up now? I can think back to certain slanderous events that took place years ago to zero CM reaction, so why now stir the pot? I see only one reason- try and bait community members into restarting some kind of old flame war so you can look at TFN and SNF as we head out the door (I can't speak for Ami but I would guess he's looking that way) and say, "Hah, look. They were assholes, good riddance."

Then you state that anyone looking to make a career out of casting COH should look elsewhere. Well, duh. TFN was never in this for the money. If we wanted money, we'd be in Dota or LoL or SC2 or any one of a number of other, bigger games that have an actual esports scene. However, you kind of shoot yourself in the foot if you make statements like this, then quickly slip a brown envelope across the table. The moment you start paying people to cast the game, you're turning it into a job. You are literally paying people to PR your game. Wanna talk about toxicity now?

But come on, let's give it a shot.


This irks me. I know that game development is not your remit Noun, but please don't tell me to 'give it a shot' when Fatal and I have spent thousands of hours creating content for this game, breaking new ground, literally adding features to the game which by all accounts should have been there in the first place- observer mode, picture-in-picture, dual resources, dual unit counters, tac map overviews, custom intros, custom outros, hosting tournaments, livecasting events, and more. To have it implied that we somehow haven't tried hard enough....well, it's pretty difficult not to interpret this as a massive slap in the face. Should mention too, that it's not just us. I'm sure I speak for anyone who has put hours into promoting this game that to be told now, 8 months after release that we should just 'give it a shot' (because clearly, we haven't been working hard enough), sends the message that everything we've done as a community up until now has been irrelevant.

Furthermore, if Relic has such an antipathy to esports, or the competitive community in general, why wasn't this made clear sooner? Why is it only now we find out that the reason we had to beg for any exposure on the official FB/Twitter was because we were making hour-long casts, and what you really wanted were 30 seconds snippets of big explosions to appeal to the masses? Why were we strung along with such promises as 'there won't be pay to win' only to be totally shat on? None of these things are necessarily wrong, that's how you want to do business, that's fine by me- but we have wasted our time to date thinking that Relic gave a shit about our attempts, as a whole community- not just TFN- to craft a scene that might one day be regarded as esports within CoH/2.

TFN has left this scene for two reasons- one is a lack of support for the competitive community, but the other is quite simply the game itself. Tycho touched on this; the replay system is actually worse than in CoH1, the game itself is, even speaking objectively, ugly and cluttered to look at and basic functionality is still middling at best. You want us to make cool little montages- we can't do that without at the very least a rewind system. Or, well, we can (and have done so), but several hours work for 30 seconds of footage isn't a very good effort:outcome ratio.

I'm done with CoH as a franchise, but here's the 6 step program that might have made CoH2 more successful from the start instead of the bombing mess that it is today;
1. Make the FB/Twitter feeds an outlet for community exposure, not questions asking what people's favourite tank is.
2. Remove pay2win DLC from automatch.
3. Make basic match a thing so you have a place for people to go for those that prefer it so automatch actually contains competitive players, and isn't just everyone lumped in together.
4. Sell DLC maps, single player missions, comp stomp co-op missions instead of units. Repackage every 3v3 and 4v4 map from vCoH into a single 'regression session' package and sell it for 10 bucks. Minimal effort for maximum profit.
5. Use your power as a developer/SEGA as a publisher to promote CoH2 streams via Twitch, Youtube, MLG, whatever.
6. Give us the tools to make content. Remove the prevention on modding, put in basic features like observer mode (at its most basic you could literally just make 1v1 maps with 2 extra 'hidden' slots, thats how modders did it for CoH1)

There's plenty of other things that could've been changed, but they would require more time and money (like making commanders have a bit of personality instead of all being roughly carbon copies, like having some logical progression to the tier system instead of a scattergun assortment of units, like having global upgrades to add some depth to the otherwise standard infantry-infantry-infantry tanks-tanks-tanks game progression, like having a functioning replay system, like optimizing the game so we can record in high quality instead of chugging along, like learning from all the design mistakes that were made in CoH1 and subsequently rectified [human crush on light vehicles, wire cutters as a purchasable upgrade etc]).

Of course, none of this happened, so the game is failing from the perspective of everyone here. You can keep saying that it's surpassed where CoH1 was at the same point in its life cycle, but that's a bit like saying that I'm better at maths now than I was when I was 13. Yeah, that's wonderful and everything, but it's also meaningless.

It might be easy to look at something like this and just go 'lol videogames srs business' but I feel we're justified in being ticked off. We invested our time and energy into this franchise in the very reasonable expectation that CoH2 would be at least worthy as a predecessor. The fact that it has failed these expectations on so many accounts feels almost like a betrayal for those who put the hours in to make content, to host tournaments, to do and make cool things. CoH2 succeeded in not only being a disappointment (not to everyone, I know, but to a large section of the content creating community) but also in killing CoH1.

There have been several points in the past where this initiative might have been gratefully received. But now? It's too little, too late, and the kind of community you want to engineer is clearly far removed from what we want to create. That's fine, it's your choice. I just wish you would've been clearer, earlier, and saved us all a lot of time.
13 Feb 2014, 13:33 PM
#93
avatar of Stoffa

Posts: 333

Read through this whole thread. Really unsure what Nouns point is.
He wants us all to start learning video montage so we can do 30 second clips which can act as a free promotion of the game so they can boost sales?

Did I get it right?
13 Feb 2014, 13:45 PM
#94
avatar of m00nch1ld
Donator 11

Posts: 641 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Feb 2014, 13:33 PMStoffa
Read through this whole thread. Really unsure what Nouns point is.
He wants us all to start learning video montage so we can do 30 second clips which can act as a free promotion of the game so they can boost sales?

Did I get it right?

I think you did. They want us to do their job, promoting the game for free.
Neo
13 Feb 2014, 13:54 PM
#95
avatar of Neo

Posts: 471

... this community is like a bunch of heroin addicts complaining about their needle. If you don't like the game, stop playing it and GTFO, please. Noun's "wall of text" is chock full of good ideas about how casters could make more entertaining videos and support the game.


The difference between heroin and this game is that heroin sells itself. You don't need 30 second promotional clips and shoot-up casts for people to go and buy more heroin.

A good game sells itself. You don't need promotional campaigns if people love your product and tell their friends about it. You don't need better casts for people to buy expansions and DLC content if they feel it is balanced and adds to not only their ability to win but to the well-being of the game and its community as a whole.

To see moderators complain about people not being constructive enough is the biggest slap in the face to all those people who have been making suggestions, reporting bugs, alpha, beta testing etc. with their efforts largely ignored.

When was the last time you saw on a forum that someone posted a suggestion for improving the game and someone from the dev team posted back saying "Wow, great idea! We'll do this and when we do we'll mention that XXX suggested it"?

I reported a bug yesterday that I don't think anyone has discovered yet that while unique and rare in usage can be very powerful, including with the upcoming TA change. Why doesn't Relic give away a DLC commander of your choice for every major bug that is reported and fixed? Why not reward players for being constructive?

I'm with Sib when he says "give it time" but let's not pretend that not being constructive is the problem. The problem is that being constructive is not rewarded by Relic and largely ignored and it's only the bitching and flaming that gets them to sit up and take notice.
13 Feb 2014, 14:09 PM
#96
avatar of Kreatiir

Posts: 2819

There is a lot of whining and bitching going on, and it's like we are here, pretty isolated getting mad on eachother and flaming and trying to be constructive, but I feel we don't get heard. WE are the community and there are lots of guys who would go for it if they felt that what they are doing, isn't talking to a wall or useless.

It's like they don't understand that the game stands or falls with the comunity. Talking for myself; I will quit the game if this weard, negative cloud doesn't go away.
13 Feb 2014, 14:09 PM
#97
avatar of DerBaer

Posts: 219

Great post, Tommy. You worded the situation out very well! Now I am looking forward to Noun's response...
13 Feb 2014, 14:18 PM
#98
avatar of Stoffa

Posts: 333

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Feb 2014, 14:09 PMDerBaer
Great post, Tommy. You worded the situation out very well! Now I am looking forward to Noun's response...


I think you'll be waiting a long long time then.
13 Feb 2014, 14:20 PM
#99
avatar of The amazing Chandler

Posts: 1355

Noun wrote: We are very proud of COH2 (and they should because its there right to do so).

But i will say this to the Relic.

How do you explane that: If someone says today " What about COH2, is it a god game? Should i buy it?
The answer you probably will hear is:
Oh man, they took a Ferrari (vCOH) and turned it in to a FIAT (COH2).
What i am trying to say is that "when you see smoke there is a Fire".
And Noun, there was Smoke for COH2 at release, so dont tell my you did not see the fire.
You chose your path for the game and the the majority did not like it and they stated that. You had the change to change the path but you chose not to do so.

Bottomline is, 3 years ago when you heard "Company of Heroes" you would alos hear " Wow, best RTS ever". If you hear it now probably you will get a "mehhhhh,huuuh, let me see, i dont know man".
And this is 100% Relics fault.

P.S. I Like COH2 but i thing i would 1000 time better if you had done at least 50% of what the Casters, Fans and the comunity wanted!!!

P.S. II It is realy sad to see thet TFN (and maybe SNF) are leaving the COH scene. It hurt me to read what Tommy wrote. I did not know this details.

TNF, i hope you come back, i am not unsuscribing you YT Channel:-)

13 Feb 2014, 14:34 PM
#100
avatar of awa59noob
Benefactor 3110

Posts: 152

of cource Tommy has a point. He usually has.
Excluding the trip to Vancouver dividing the community.It was a peek for a few who helped the game. I dont understand the Toxic discussion anyways tbh "Boys will be Boys get on with your Life" will be my point. But obviously i am not an insider who knows the behind the curtain stuff.
I dont agree with Tommy`s critic on the optics either. But this a very small point. Tommy and Fatal invested a lot of their life in this game and they did such great things. I really was sad, when they decided to stop their work.

BUT
This thread is supposed to be about the future. i would have loved if relic had an special Esport section in the developer, who take care of the needs, but they obiously dont. i think the game could be a LOT Better, but it probably will never be. Otherwise the points Tommy mentioned would have been fixed already. They never will get fixed.

The thing is, i still like the game and the persons who play it. I dont think, it is healty to fill this thread with the problems we all know there are. Lets just acccept Coh2 as a title for casual gamers an enjoy it.


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