Call to action - Let's Be Awesome Together

Tbh I didn't read through the whole thread cause I got other books to read. The general tone seems to be no different from what you read everywhere else. A lot of whining mostly.
Not that there is no constructive critisism as well. I red the first post and though these are finally some positiv vibes for a change and I just want to show my approval with this reply. Love the game, feel positiv about it, look forward to the things to come and am willing to give monetary support in the future to support it. There, there, everything is gonna be alright

I never, ever heard a tribute to Harlequin from SNF

SNF currently have 4,338 followers.Harlequin stopped 3 years ago with 2,998 followers. Go figure.

A tribute? SNF is not about making tributes to past shows or past casters. That's just not something that we do. SNF is about the best players competing, on a show that is as close to live as possible. We are happy to promote other competitions that are occurring during the span of our show, which we did throughout SNF4 and SNF5.

When I heard there would be a full fledged COH expansion in the likes of COH2, one of my first thoughts was, "At last! We will have modern tools (OBS mode) so that we can finally do SNF truly live." Instead of enjoying OBS mode, we found ourselves fighting tooth and nail just to get fixed positions.

But if you must know, I personally never watched Harlequin because I was never interested in COHO. I uninstalled the game when I saw that big shopping cart icon in the middle of the lobby menu.

Tbh I didn't read through the whole thread cause I got other books to read. The general tone seems to be no different from what you read everywhere else. A lot of whining mostly.
Not that there is no constructive critisism as well. I red the first post and though these are finally some positiv vibes for a change and I just want to show my approval with this reply. Love the game, feel positiv about it, look forward to the things to come and am willing to give monetary support in the future to support it. There, there, everything is gonna be alright

May I suggest you do indeed READ the thread before telling people to "F off" simply because your opinion differs? You may actually see a LOT of effort is being made by people here to FIX the game so we can ALL enjoy it - its rather selfish of you to simply say "games perfectly fine for ME - so the rest you can either like it or be silent".

If you want a community where its a homogenous opinion of how great COH2 is - then may I suggest you try the official forum where you'll find just that.

If you can push the negative tones aside - you'll see that people take the TIME to post here because they want a game to enjoy and prosper and get into - just like they did with its predecessor.

If we all just wanted to see it fail - why would anyone bother wasting their time?

Sorry I didn't mean it like that. I actually skimmed the thread. I agree with you, I don't think the game is perfect at all. As I said there is constructive critisism and it's very welcome as far as I'm concerned(were it belongs that is). What just annoys me are people who don't even understand what is going on and who are just parroting back what others (who actually might have a point) said a million times in a dumb down version, infecting otheres with their bs. That just poisens a community and I have seen that attitude bring down games to their knees before.
I don't think I told anyone to F off btw.
I mean try and read through the forum. It often ends up with the same kind of arguements regardless of the topic of the thread making it a pain to filter stuff you are actually interested in. I got it, you got it, everyone got it. A game does change slowly and that's a fact. Again I mean stuff like p2w, rng, shocks, ace, buisness model in general, cover, ladder etc.(you know what I'm talking about). This thread was about something completely different. If someone joins this community cause they like the game and were looking for exactely this kind of platform they might just be like wtf, like the game less and never come back.
Again, we are actually on the same page here (I guess). I was replying in this thread because I red it and thought, cool thing, thanks for trying^^.

If you want a community where its a homogenous opinion of how great COH2 is - then may I suggest you try the official forum where you'll find just that.

Take off your rose-tinted glasses and re-adjust to reality.

Thats not the problem, its just one of the bigger and more controversial ones. There is blizzards, terrible optimization, rip off DCE, outrageously priced DLC, lack of global upgrades, doctrine design (even if they were all free its still a terrible system imo), lack of a mid game, super tanks that shoot over halfway across the map, and the really inconsistent and uber slow pace of the early game infantry engagements that would easily last several minutes if not for rifle nades and molotovs.

Um yea, so that means you don't like the game. You don't like the core mechanics of the game, which means it's useless to talk about how shitty the game is on a forum dedicated to it. See, things like balance and commanders and stuff can be improved, but a lot of the things that you named are just.. Well.. Part of the game.

I agree on the optimization and the pricing though.

A tribute? SNF is not about making tributes to past shows or past casters. That's just not something that we do. SNF is about the best players competing, on a show that is as close to live as possible. We are happy to promote other competitions that are occurring during the span of our show, which we did throughout SNF4 and SNF5.

Agreed. SNF/COH2.ORG has, from what I can see, always been great about promoting other casters and shows.

Noun , what you are asking us to do in terms of content creation ( short catchy videos ) has already been done by machinima who are professionals and are already established and well connected and they straggled to surpass the 500k mark views with all the videos they made put together . It would make 0 difference if i made a 3 min half-decent video with my semidecent computer and uploaded it in my punny channel even if i could get past the challenge of editing . If you want promotion for the game i would advise you to give this task to a professional reviewer for example TotalBiscuit or AngryJoe .

I think it would be far more beneficial for the game if you focussed on making some changes that are being asked for by most ppl since the early beta and focussing your promotion resources and the communitys potential after the first expansion of the game in a big all or nothing move . I wont go in depth but i generally aggree with the points that have been made so far by Tommy and Inverse .

Because lets be clear on this , when your playerbase for CoH2 avgs on 4k players and is actually lower than pre-steam CoH numbers 8 months after the new game's release and after a literal horde of patches that have actually made improvements that means there is something fundamentally wrong with the game . If things were so rosy as being portrayed by the " CoH2 defence " then how on earth do we have a problem on the first place . Coh2 numbers should be rising but they arent (at least not in a significant way ).

I would also like to question the model around coh2 is organised which to me seems very similar to coh only you need to pay more and you have less freedom . I dont know how ppl can expect success out of this model when its predecessor was deemed a faillure especially since there are more forced microtransactions ( by comparison to other models ) because lets face it paying to make your space marines or favorite dota champion look cool is viable , paying to have red and white stripes on your tiger isnt for the simple reason that the former have a customisable character by default while the latter doesnt .

I'm not asking anyone to do anything they don't want to. I'm just sharing my findings from 7-8 months worth of posting stuff on Facebook. Short clips get viewed more, shared more and commented on more.

Does that mean nobody should do long form stuff? No.

But maybe you could do both. The clip of StephennJF screaming in trending is a good example. That can be used to promote his full stream.

Nobody says that they should skip making Avengers 2 and only make the trailer. Nobody says Will Ferral should stop making movies and just do short skits like The Landlord.

Ultimately though people should make and do what they're interested in. Do what excited you and what you think is fun.

I'm not asking anyone to do anything they don't want to. I'm just sharing my findings from 7-8 months worth of posting stuff on Facebook. Short clips get viewed more, shared more and commented on more.

Does that mean nobody should do long form stuff? No.

But maybe you could do both. The clip of StephennJF screaming in trending is a good example. That can be used to promote his full stream.

Nobody says that they should skip making Avengers 2 and only make the trailer. Nobody says Will Ferral should stop making movies and just do short skits like The Landlord.

Ultimately though people should make and do what they're interested in. Do what excited you and what you think is fun.

all right ppl, do memes

If you want promotion for the game i would advise you to give this task to a professional reviewer for example TotalBiscuit or AngryJoe .

*cough cough*

well... TB doesn't do any Sega games. Ever.

and AngryJoe is not necessarily known for his favourable reviews ;-)

*cough cough*

well... TB doesn't do any Sega games. Ever.

and AngryJoe is not necessarily known for his favourable reviews ;-)

http://www.youtube.com/cynicalbrit

"youtube #1 PC gaming critic"

I laughed so hard, never heard of it.

I am probably wrong, but to me,something of Noun's fine opening post points to the elephant in the room. i.e. the arch-caster for CoH: Harlequin.

Harlequin - Terrence O'Brien - had no sides; he always transmitted as a genuinely enthusiastic person - clearly highly intelligent -who never portrayed a toxic element. He sprung out of nowhere into C0HO, took the initial toxic hits- 'Who are you?' - in his stride- and proceeded to gather support where 'Tales of Heroes' had left off.He was innovative with his casts- no fear of webcams - he was -crucially- entertaining and positive, so that those who followed him, will not forget "Bazooka Joe" or "Panzerschrek Johann".Nor indeed,Harlequin's passion for Calliopes!

I recall Imperial Dane begging for a game of his to be cast by Harlequin- I recall Inverse ( the GR Admin for CoHO (who took over from Hill Home), who damns CohO now) taking part in a Harlequin leet tournament, with others like Nystrom. And this was after Inverse had cast his first educational cast re Langres on CoHO. And I recall Krebs subsequent pathetic attempts to emulate Harlequin's style, with mis-pronunciation of German words. Except it never came off(for me), bcs the copy was so bald

When CoHO was sadly dismantled. Harlequin attempted to belatedly learn vCoH, whilst growing DOW Retribution. He had the support of people like Budwise Reborn and Nosliw Reborn. But the good ole boys from GR.org were out there, sniping hard and viciously. I think even their jaundiced view on life would have been overcome, but sadly, commercial opportunities led elsewhere and seduced Hsrlequin away.

After he had gone, Bridger -another premium caster - who returned with Rogers, to put out some lovely vCoH training casts - lamented the loss of opportunity to cast with Harlequin

I never, ever heard a tribute to Harlequin from SNF

SNF currently have 4,338 followers.Harlequin stopped 3 years ago with 2,998 followers. Go figure.

PS Both Krebs and Basilone were CoH) noobs,who tried to recreate a self-justifying back-history to exculpate themselves with the good ole boys,but that is another story.....

I never understood this obsession with Harlequin. I never got the sense that he cared for the community; he really only cared for himself. Back when CoHO didn't have replays, GR was given a backdoor means of accessing replays and told not to reveal this until Relic was able to implement it in a user-friendly way for everyone. Harlequin had a friend who worked at Relic and gave him access to replays as well, and while we at GR were respecting Relic's NDA, Harlequin, an entirely unknown caster with no history in CoH and seemingly no regard for the community, starts posting replay casts. Needless to say, those of us working so hard on growing the game's community were pretty upset about that.

And when he joined GR as a caster, he really only did it as another avenue of self-promotion. He didn't participate in the community beyond posting links to his casts, and he didn't help with the site at all. He hosted a tournament, sure, but it was a clusterfuck of organization and again was an avenue of self-promotion for his casts. After CoHO went under, he left for DoW2.

As for his casts, they were painful as hell to listen to if you had any knowledge whatsoever of the game he was casting. He never really tried to improve his game knowledge, even after it was pointed out to him a million times, and his only saving grace was his ability to entertain people with drab play-by-play.

With that in mind, why would SNF feel obligated to recognize him? He didn't really do anything for the community in my eyes. He's the kind of caster that gets people interested in himself, not in the game. He's like Krebs. People are going to watch them regardless of what game they cast. And when they switch games, so do their viewers. They never really engaged with the community.

I don't think that's the type of person Noun and Relic are looking for; at least I hope it's not. I hope they don't want to promote someone who doesn't really engage the community and who jumps ship the moment they find something more profitable, even if they do attract new people to the game.

The clip of StephennJF screaming in trending is a good example. That can be used to promote his full stream.

Promoting that will draw some attention to his channel, but not to the game. The only people that will even see it are the people that are already following Relic; and either currently play CoH2 or already bought and uninstalled (most likely the latter). There is no easy way around this, fix the core issues with the game instead of trying to insinuate that the thousands and thousands of man hours that were pumped in to creating content somehow weren't good enough, especially when you consider that a good bit of features that should help with that are missing from the game (rewind, observer mode, replay analysis tools, etc).

So if Quinn Duffy and the other higher ups either forgot or never knew why the game isn't a big hit among the CoH1 crowd, then send them to the private forums here so they can get filled in. Beta balance forums are pointless because these are mostly design problems, and if you iron out a turd it still smells like shit.

Then hopefully one day when the game is appealing the majority of the people that play it, you can pay someone like Angry Joe to review it and get CoH2 back on the radar. If he reviewed the game in its current state it would not be a pretty sight, though I would probably be laughing my ass off at Relic's expense.

Promoting that will draw some attention to his channel, but not to the game. The only people that will even see it are the people that are already following Relic; and either currently play CoH2 or already bought and uninstalled (most likely the latter). There is no easy way around this, fix the core issues with the game instead of trying to insinuate that the thousands and thousands of man hours that were pumped in to creating content somehow weren't good enough, especially when you consider that a good bit of features that should help with that are missing from the game (rewind, observer mode, replay analysis tools, etc).

So if Quinn Duffy and the other higher ups either forgot or never knew why the game isn't a big hit among the CoH1 competitive crowd, then send them to the private forums here so they can get filled in. Beta balance forums are pointless because these are mostly design problems, and if you iron out a turd it still smells like shit.

Then hopefully one day when the game is appealing the majority of the people that play it, you can pay someone like Angry Joe to review it and get CoH2 back on the radar. If he reviewed the game in its current state it would not be a pretty sight, though I would probably be laughing my ass off at Relic's expense.

i am so fucking agree, but the question why i so hard to do it? Relic is run out of programmers or what?

I never understood this obsession with Harlequin. I never got the sense that he cared for the community; he really only cared for himself. Back when CoHO didn't have replays, GR was given a backdoor means of accessing replays and told not to reveal this until Relic was able to implement it in a user-friendly way for everyone. Harlequin had a friend who worked at Relic and gave him access to replays as well, and while we at GR were respecting Relic's NDA, Harlequin, an entirely unknown caster with no history in CoH and seemingly no regard for the community, starts posting replay casts. Needless to say, those of us working so hard on growing the game's community were pretty upset about that.

And when he joined GR as a caster, he really only did it as another avenue of self-promotion. He didn't participate in the community beyond posting links to his casts, and he didn't help with the site at all. He hosted a tournament, sure, but it was a clusterfuck of organization and again was an avenue of self-promotion for his casts. After CoHO went under, he left for DoW2.

As for his casts, they were painful as hell to listen to if you had any knowledge whatsoever of the game he was casting. He never really tried to improve his game knowledge, even after it was pointed out to him a million times, and his only saving grace was his ability to entertain people with drab play-by-play.

With that in mind, why would SNF feel obligated to recognize him? He didn't really do anything for the community in my eyes. He's the kind of caster that gets people interested in himself, not in the game. He's like Krebs. People are going to watch them regardless of what game they cast. And when they switch games, so do their viewers. They never really engaged with the community.

I don't think that's the type of person Noun and Relic are looking for; at least I hope it's not. I hope they don't want to promote someone who doesn't really engage the community and who jumps ship the moment they find something more profitable, even if they do attract new people to the game.

While Harlequin did care only about himself, he did bring new people into CoH with his casts. Although switching over to DoW2 and quitting CoH was a sad move in itself. He could have continued with both.

I never understood this obsession with Harlequin. I never got the sense that he cared for the community; he really only cared for himself. Back when CoHO didn't have replays, GR was given a backdoor means of accessing replays and told not to reveal this until Relic was able to implement it in a user-friendly way for everyone. Harlequin had a friend who worked at Relic and gave him access to replays as well, and while we at GR were respecting Relic's NDA, Harlequin, an entirely unknown caster with no history in CoH and seemingly no regard for the community, starts posting replay casts. Needless to say, those of us working so hard on growing the game's community were pretty upset about that.

And when he joined GR as a caster, he really only did it as another avenue of self-promotion. He didn't participate in the community beyond posting links to his casts, and he didn't help with the site at all. He hosted a tournament, sure, but it was a clusterfuck of organization and again was an avenue of self-promotion for his casts. After CoHO went under, he left for DoW2.

As for his casts, they were painful as hell to listen to if you had any knowledge whatsoever of the game he was casting. He never really tried to improve his game knowledge, even after it was pointed out to him a million times, and his only saving grace was his ability to entertain people with drab play-by-play.

With that in mind, why would SNF feel obligated to recognize him? He didn't really do anything for the community in my eyes. He's the kind of caster that gets people interested in himself, not in the game. He's like Krebs. People are going to watch them regardless of what game they cast. And when they switch games, so do their viewers. They never really engaged with the community.

I don't think that's the type of person Noun and Relic are looking for; at least I hope it's not. I hope they don't want to promote someone who doesn't really engage the community and who jumps ship the moment they find something more profitable, even if they do attract new people to the game.

Inverse just 3 things:

1- Isn't this kind of grudge between casters what Noun is trying to avoid?
2- What's wrong with casters arranging tourneys? isn't this what SNF, TFN, AE and others does/did?
3- Being butthurt with the man after so long is just lame bro

...we'll do it differently next time. That specifically was designed as a trip where we were going to bring in top level LoL and SC2 casters. Both Lynx and I pushed back on that and said that trying to convince people who don't love CoH to play the game wasn't the way to go about it, and so at the last minute we reformatted it as a community trip.

Why is it that this is such a typical situation for Relic? I feel that this kind of approach affects every level of CoH2's execution, from game balancing, to community interaction, to business modelling. Whatever plan is made, it is inevitably changed and reworked at the last minute into something rushed and usually incoherent with the original plan (or future goals.)

Which paints a context that makes sense for CoH2: that despite ample time and resources, features appear like last-minute kludges, as whatever original plan didn't pan out. What is left is the scramble to meet a deadline. I recall for instance, regarding mud tech on how it had been developed for some time but not released due to it not working as well as intended. It's absence until rather recently had always stuck in my mind since closed beta.

Eventually features will be implemented and bugs will be fixed, just as Duke Nukem Forever was in fact eventually released.

Why is it that this is such a typical situation for Relic? I feel that this kind of approach affects every level of CoH2's execution, from game balancing, to community interaction, to business modelling. Whatever plan is made, it is inevitably changed and reworked at the last minute into something rushed and usually incoherent with the original plan (or future goals.)

Which paints a context that makes sense for CoH2: that despite ample time and resources, features appear like last-minute kluges, as whatever original plan didn't pan out. What is left is the scramble to meet a deadline. I recall for instance, regarding mud tech on how it had been developed for some time but not released due to it not working as well as intended. It's absence until rather recently had always stuck in my mind since closed beta.

Eventually features will be implemented and bugs will be fixed, just as Duke Nukem Forever was in fact eventually released.

Relic created me?

Relic created me?

Rofl.

I meant kludge.