The Stuh redesign

What would people like to see on the Stuh?

I would almost definitely make it non-arty projectile again.

This does 2 things:
- fixes that bug that it tries to shoot over hedges
- open it up for more reliable usage

The thing is with this change effects are still a bit random and makes it too powerful aswell for a 4CP 500 manpower tank.

I already tried out 2 things:
The first one was making the gun more accurate, but damage lowered a lot. This made it so that it wouldn't kill a single member on squads. But the AoE range was still big and the squad health would be reduced to 50% percent health.

The second one was also increased accuracy, damage lowered a lot at longer AoE ranges, but the shorter AoE ranges reduced a lot.
This one would always snipe 1 or 2 guys from the squad and damage the rest of the squad lightly.

But i'm open for ideas on this one.
If people just want it to be a Stug gun, slightly better vs infantry, slightly worse vs tanks ... that's also possible.

I think the damage should be nerfed, but the AOE increased. The target table can be adjusted that the effect against tanks and buildings remain the same. This way the Stuh gets more predictable for both players.
On a side note: Is it possible to change the AOE of a weapon by range?

On a side note: Is it possible to change the AOE of a weapon by range?

Yes

Edit: Or not if you mean how far the target is off your weapon?

Ye the damage should be lower vs infantry, and I like to retain the unique element of it being an AoE weapon aswell.

The problem with it's AoE was that it sometimes failed to 'hit' cause of accuracy issues. But if you make it always hit it's straight up overpowered.

Change to 6 CP and leave everything as is. Problem solved.

How about more accuracy and either less damage or less aoe?

What would people like to see on the Stuh?

I would almost definitely make it non-arty projectile again.

This does 2 things:
- fixes that bug that it tries to shoot over hedges
- open it up for more reliable usage

The thing is with this change effects are still a bit random and makes it too powerful aswell for a 4CP 500 manpower tank.

I already tried out 2 things:
The first one was making the gun more accurate, but damage lowered a lot. This made it so that it wouldn't kill a single member on squads. But the AoE range was still big and the squad health would be reduced to 50% percent health.

The second one was also increased accuracy, damage lowered a lot at longer AoE ranges, but the shorter AoE ranges reduced a lot.
This one would always snipe 1 or 2 guys from the squad and damage the rest of the squad lightly.

But i'm open for ideas on this one.
If people just want it to be a Stug gun, slightly better vs infantry, slightly worse vs tanks ... that's also possible.

It's a tank with a 105mm howitzer, why should it behave like a 75mm StuG gun with AP shells? It's pretty much supposed to rape infantry and buildings. That's what howitzers do in CoH.

If you really want to make changes to the weapon:
Change its AoE damage modifiers to (s/m/l) 1.25/0.6/0.2, AoE distance to 1.25/2.2/5 and increase AoE accuracy to 1.25/1/1 (s/m/l) [current stats: AoE dmg (1/0.65/0.3) // AoE dist (1.25/2.5/5) // AoE acc (1/1/1).]

Then go ahead to increase reload time by 1 second and set call in cost to 550mp. Tadaa - it'll sucessfully, reliably rape units in the center of its impact but deal overall slightly lower damage to spread out units.

If you want to make it more reliable against moving units increase the projectile speed from 20 to 35.

Alternatively make it an indirect fire weapon like the calliope but that will have a huge impact on the gameplay (so, just don't..).

Edit: Oh and what I forgot: if you want to remove that random "my StuH can't kill that single soldier even if it's hit directly by the shells" - just increase the accuracy modifiers/penetration against yellow/green cover.

Edit²: Also, while we're at it. If you actually want to improve the game, you'd actually need to consider switching abilities on Blitzkrieg around. ATM lhs is always more useful than RHS, which is known since years. The reduced CP cost on the StuH is just a symptom that made Blitz more appealing.

It would actually make more sense to switch around Tiger I, mp blitz and Blitzkrieg on the trees.

LHS : Storms (2cp) - Stuh (2cp) - Blitzkrieg (1-2cp)
RHS : Assault nades (1cp) - mp blitz (3cp) - Tiger I (4-5cp)

So you either pick strong call in units that can be buffed with blitzkrieg (StuH profits a lot from blitzkrieg) or you pick RHS to buff your economy to get out a few grens, mp for vet, snipers etc and to get the Tiger in the lategame.

If you really want to make changes to the weapon:
Change its AoE damage modifiers to (s/m/l) 1.25/0.6/0.2, AoE distance to 1.25/2.2/5 and increase AoE accuracy to 1.25/1/1 (s/m/l) [current stats: AoE dmg (1/0.65/0.3) // AoE dist (1.25/2.5/5) // AoE acc (1/1/1).]

Then go ahead to increase reload time by 1 second and set call in cost to 550mp. Tadaa - it'll sucessfully, reliably rape units in the center of its impact but deal overall slightly lower damage to spread out units.

I tried something similar (with more AoE accuracy slightly less damage) but it raped too much so I further lowered the AoE short. Which I came out on version 2 of the remake.

The 1 second extra reload too make up for more damage is interesting though. Could play some more with that.

I tried something similar (with more AoE accuracy slightly less damage) but it raped too much so I further lowered the AoE short. Which I came out on version 2 of the remake.

The 1 second extra reload too make up for more damage is interesting though. Could play some more with that.

That's the point of bringing in a StuH... It's a 105mm artillerypiece mounted on a StuG chassis. It's anti inf and anti blob. So it should rape blobbed infantry. That's what its howitzer is made for. If it does not do that it's worthless. Just imagine a 105mm offmap barrage not killing grens on a direct hit - everyone would go like "lol wtf is this. They got hit by arty, they should be dead".

I dont think the unit itself needs changing. Maybe come 1CP later, but thats it.

I dont think the unit itself needs changing. Maybe come 1CP later, but thats it.

Wasn´t it changed to 4CP, because it came too late at 5CP? (dunno which patch changed it, but afaik 2.602)

Wasn´t it changed to 4CP, because it came too late at 5CP? (dunno which patch changed it, but afaik 2.602)

yes, 2.602 reduced StuH mp cost to 500 and CP cost to 4 from 600mp and 5cp.

Like I said before. Increase the damage/accuracy for the direct impact, lower the long distance damage, raise it's reload time, raise projectile speed to 35, increase the cost to 550mp (or 600mp) and it'll perform reliably fine, against all sorts of infantry without either looking weird or being ultimately OP.

This makes the StuH a reliable damage dealer, with less rng impact. So everyone will know that the StuH will rape his units if he decides to blob in front of it instead of having an all-or-nothing chance (which is the larger problem on the StuH).

Edit: Alternatively you could also buff the StuH straight out and move it back to 5cp. Afaik the StuH was considered useless at 5cp because it oculd not handle tanks and was very random at fighting infantry units. If you make it reliable against inf that might work.

Or just reverte it to 1.0 version when it used to kill like 2-3 guys in a direct hit.
Oh and it feels like its having a hard time vs airbornes, no more nuke shots.

Or just reverte it to 1.0 version when it used to kill like 2-3 guys in a direct hit.

And then you have a StuG IV with HE shells. That's exactly how the StuH should not look anymore. It's got a 105mm Howitzer mounted on its chassis, not a 75mm HE shell pzIV gun.

Oh and it feels like its having a hard time vs airbornes, no more nuke shots.

That's what my proposed stat changes will result in. Slower, but more accurate "nuke" shots but less squad wipes unless your opponent blobs.

Why not just make it 5cp? Blitz doc is still kind of meh compared to terror and certain defensive strategies.

I like that you have to attack ground, it adds to the skill cap. I do agree it can be kind of random, but to change the way the unit works seems a bit excessive.

The less changes the better.

The less changes the better.

true that

the main buff in patch 2.602 buffed the stuh was when they changed it from a building killer to a infrantry killer

the main buff in patch 2.602 buffed the stuh was when they changed it from a building killer to a infrantry killer

There was no stats change on the StuH since the release of Opposing Fronts. Only thing 2.602 did was changing the StuH attack behavior so that it focuses infantry now when tanks are on the screen. However, this is rarely of use because you micro it manually anyways.

nvm

I wonder, what if the Stuh had an additional barrage option, where all those changes, we discussed, are put in.

It's way too random right now. I'd like to see a more consistent damage output in the 2nd way you suggested rocky in your OP.