MG Bunkers

MG Bunkers seem very durable in the early game, they are quite strong against both flamethrowers and 120mm mortars. If they are placed on your cut-off on say a map like north Langersky they can be extremely annoying. I mostly play Germans and use this against soviets, it seems to be working very well.

What do you guys think?

Speed bumps. They suck and the counters are bad. 76 seconds with a flame thrower.

Bunker build time should be increased substantially with a slight increase to MP.

The best counter is a Zis+spotting. It kills bunkers much faster the flames.

That's what I use, but I agree with the OP that when I play OH I seltern see the SU do this.

Well placed bunker with mortar and pak behind is annoying and slow Soviet attack. No problem deal with this, but for 150MP and 60muni highly usefull.

I think this is the whole purpose of bunker. To slow your advance and buy some time.

The best counter is a Zis+spotting. It kills bunkers much faster the flames.

That's what I use, but I agree with the OP that when I play OH I seltern see the SU do this.

maybe 320mp for strictly a bunker counter comes too costly? its role ends after the bunker is down and is a deadweight in infantry fighting. barrage is 60 per pop and early on 60munitions is expensive when u have to molotov frequently to keep things even.

i dread getting an AT gun when im trying to get more anti infantry units out to counter grenadier spams, then boom a bunker plops down and forces me to get AT gun, while he continues to pump out more infantry units to dominate the field.

its a common pattern and a very effective one, grens spam + 1 mg -> bunker at cut off -> mortars/panzergrens to clear AT guns and infantry support, while the soviet player is now stuck with cons vs pgrens or struggling with the bleed to get shocktroops.

You can always go quick T3,T4 and get some vehicles. Bunker it's an investment that will slow your tech down.

You can always go quick T3,T4 and get some vehicles. Bunker it's an investment that will slow your tech down.

?????????

I mean it´s 150 mp and 60 muni but i dont see how much it can slow your tech besides MP. As i see it, it further delays SU tech rather than on the OH side.

Bunkers can be a real hassle to deal with. I mostly play 4v4 with friends lately, and several German teams spam bunkers like crazy. I have never lost to this in a 4v4 because there are several ways to deal with it. They are a much bigger road bump in small games.

Guards do well against them. If you go for a T1 build and get guards, you can put them in a scout car and roll up behind the bunker. AT guns can attack ground into the fog of war if you know where a bunker is located.

Mortars and flamethrowers take forever.

Bunkers can be a real hassle to deal with. I mostly play 4v4 with friends lately, and several German teams spam bunkers like crazy. I have never lost to this in a 4v4 because there are several ways to deal with it. They are a much bigger road bump in small games.

Guards do well against them. If you go for a T1 build and get guards, you can put them in a scout car and roll up behind the bunker. AT guns can attack ground into the fog of war if you know where a bunker is located.

Mortars and flamethrowers take forever.

In larger team games I see bunker spam frequently. Use scouts to prevent running directly into the bunker and then use either AT guns, guards, penals, or flamers to bring them down. If you have time you can rain mortars down on them.

Remember he is very, very light on munitions, so he will not have FHT, or mg42's on his grens, unless you did something very wrong, so his other forces are not very threatening. Aggressive play that pushes through the bunker and gets behind quickly will throw him off the field.

In larger team games someone should have gone T1, use scout cars to rapidly flank the bunkers and get units in behind them.

Bunkers are a stalling tactic, that is how they function. Try to prevent the time they stall you. You will be stalled by them, that is how they work.

maybe 320mp for strictly a bunker counter comes too costly? its role ends after the bunker is down and is a deadweight in infantry fighting. barrage is 60 per pop and early on 60munitions is expensive when u have to molotov frequently to keep things even.

In how many games do you never need either AT or vehciles/tanks?

Close to zero, I think.

Your investment in AT or vehicle is far from deadweight. Maybe the german bunkers force you to tech earlier than planned, but what you build from it will hardly ever be wasted.

And remember that the mg on the bunker costs him ammo too. AMmo he can't use for mg42s.

i dread getting an AT gun when im trying to get more anti infantry units out to counter grenadier spams, then boom a bunker plops down and forces me to get AT gun, while he continues to pump out more infantry units to dominate the field.

If the OH player is building bunkers, you can't be dealing with gren spam at the same time. He can't use the same MP twice.

I don't think there is any problem with the cost of bunkers or how they perform, but I think they could deal with a modest health nerf, currently they can survive a satchel charge.

In how many games do you never need either AT or vehciles/tanks?

Close to zero, I think.

Your investment in AT or vehicle is far from deadweight. Maybe the german bunkers force you to tech earlier than planned, but what you build from it will hardly ever be wasted.

And remember that the mg on the bunker costs him ammo too. AMmo he can't use for mg42s.

If the OH player is building bunkers, you can't be dealing with gren spam at the same time. He can't use the same MP twice.

my 3rd paragraph which u kindly omitted explained the reason why its deadweight. it forces an early tech to a battle where anti tank weapons are largely useless and swarming with its very counters, infantry. a common reaction from german players would be pgrens + grenadier push, which would then shit on conscript spam AND AT gun. or another mortar squad to if the soviet player went maxim spam.

a bunker isnt exactly expensive and neither are grenadiers. unless u were taking major casualties from molotovs, 150mp is pretty easy to cough out.

however, what is most problematic is the speed of bunkers being built. just force a retreat on an important cutoff, plan ur supply links beforehand and the time for soviets to reinforce and trot back, it is enough for a bunker to cover that cut off.

now the soviet player will only have conscripts to deal with a bunker, forced to get t2 and AT gun (might be a gg if he went t1), while the german player has already bought enough time for AT guns counters and coincidentally, both counters are also good at killing conscripts. so now the soviets would have been starved off fuel/map control and pretty much lost the game.

150 MP is cheap

60 MUN is not, especially in the early game when there no real counters.

Manpower is very rarely a limiting factor in building bunkers - especially as how it does not count against your cap and will pay for itself given time (someone can no doubt crunch the figures for how long a bunker takes to pay for itself versus an MG)




If the Soviets have gone T1 a Clown Car can drive right past an unsupported bunker and flame it from the rear.

If the Soviets have gone T1 a Clown Car can drive right past an unsupported bunker and flame it from the rear.

That's not a good solution. It takes far too long to kill it with flames.

With AT it's just 3 shots (AFAIR).

Wong, I did adress the point that you have to tech earlier than anticipated.

But that's how the game is in so many other ways too: sometimes the actions of the enemy forces you to do things or timing you hadn't planned and don't prefer. WAD.

What my reply really focused on, and which you in return missed was, that you can't possibly be facing bunker and gren spam at the same time. There just isn't MP for it.

And if the bunkers aren't equipped with MG, no big deal. If they are, the OH must be starved of ammo, which is allready per default scarce for the OH player.