Sniper Balance
25 Jan 2014, 01:59 AM
#21
Posts: 531
+1 for bikes
25 Jan 2014, 02:09 AM
#22
Posts: 76
Sniper can be countered with the same ammount of micro that a sniper player puts into sniper.
-Deny the sniper by hiding behind houses
-use grenadier grenades over LOS etc.
-also halftracks reinforcing counters sniper as well since you're able to continue your push.
Also think of what a player is sacrificing for going sniper
(specially soviets)
*I'll agree that guards + snipers is a little crazy though, but I am pretty sure guards will be moved to 2CP soon
-Deny the sniper by hiding behind houses
-use grenadier grenades over LOS etc.
-also halftracks reinforcing counters sniper as well since you're able to continue your push.
Also think of what a player is sacrificing for going sniper
(specially soviets)
*I'll agree that guards + snipers is a little crazy though, but I am pretty sure guards will be moved to 2CP soon
25 Jan 2014, 02:32 AM
#23
Posts: 299
G43's(or skill 43's as my body Ciez would say), case closed.
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27 Jan 2014, 05:58 AM
#24
Posts: 29
i think when 1 man on soviet sniper team gets killed, it should reduce the unit's sight radius to that of normal infantry squad. that change isnt too extreme, and adds some depth to sniper use. would make sniper vs sniper engagements still a bit more soviet favored (because requires t1 after all) but way more interesting...
27 Jan 2014, 07:41 AM
#25
Posts: 410
I like your idea Scheme.
27 Jan 2014, 07:48 AM
#26
Posts: 531
my idea: if the spotter dies, it's like normal, just go back and reinforce him
but if the sniper dies, the spotter retreats and the squad is lost
you'd have to make it no way to tell the models apart, of course
but if the sniper dies, the spotter retreats and the squad is lost
you'd have to make it no way to tell the models apart, of course
27 Jan 2014, 08:11 AM
#27
4 
Posts: 813 | Subs: 1
my idea: if the spotter dies, it's like normal, just go back and reinforce him
but if the sniper dies, the spotter retreats and the squad is lost
you'd have to make it no way to tell the models apart, of course
Seems like rng to me. No thanks.
Schemes idea would be interesting to try out though.
27 Jan 2014, 08:28 AM
#28
Posts: 95
Simple fix IMO. If one sniper model dies from the Russian sniper the Fire CD is doubled and reset at the time of death meaning if the osteer sniper hits the russian that the russian sniper will have twice the normal reload time before being able to shoot again.
27 Jan 2014, 08:49 AM
#29
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Keep going with the ideas, we're already at official forum one faction only fanbois suggestion level, few more and silliness of ideas here will be unbeatable.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
27 Jan 2014, 08:53 AM
#30
Posts: 531
why can't we make the two snipers exactly the same, WHY DO THEY NEED TO BE ASYMMETRICAL I DON'T GET IT WHAT BENEFIT DOES IT GIVE THE GAME, WHY DO SOVIETS NEED STRONGER SNIPERS
27 Jan 2014, 08:58 AM
#31
Posts: 337
Simple fix IMO. If one sniper model dies from the Russian sniper the Fire CD is doubled and reset at the time of death meaning if the osteer sniper hits the russian that the russian sniper will have twice the normal reload time before being able to shoot again.
I like this.
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27 Jan 2014, 09:01 AM
#32
4 Posts: 813 | Subs: 1
They are not stronger? They fire more slowly, the ostheer one got its stun round that can really whip ass. Asymmetry is fun, no need to shout. 
but yeah, the soviet sniper can be hard to kill.
but yeah, the soviet sniper can be hard to kill.
27 Jan 2014, 09:06 AM
#33
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Simple fix IMO. If one sniper model dies from the Russian sniper the Fire CD is doubled and reset at the time of death meaning if the osteer sniper hits the russian that the russian sniper will have twice the normal reload time before being able to shoot again.
Stun when model get killed ? If so i would just say to buff a bit the time in cover.
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And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
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27 Jan 2014, 09:17 AM
#34
Posts: 95
To respond to the questions since I was not clear enough.
DISCLAIMER I DO NOT KNOW THE IN GAME NUMBERS!
This is purely a theoretical exercise.
Let's say it takes a Soviet sniper 5 seconds between shots with 2 members
Upon the death of one member of the sniper team the time between shots will be increased to 10 seconds until reinforced. Additionally regardless of where the sniper was in the previous cool down it will be reset as if it had just fired upon loss of a squad member. This will allow for 2 things.
1. Soviet sniper will be more forgiving however will have a cat and mouse feel with German snipers.
2. It will no longer be the only unit in the game that has 100% combat power at 50% strength instead it will have 50% combat power.
DISCLAIMER I DO NOT KNOW THE IN GAME NUMBERS!
This is purely a theoretical exercise.
Let's say it takes a Soviet sniper 5 seconds between shots with 2 members
Upon the death of one member of the sniper team the time between shots will be increased to 10 seconds until reinforced. Additionally regardless of where the sniper was in the previous cool down it will be reset as if it had just fired upon loss of a squad member. This will allow for 2 things.
1. Soviet sniper will be more forgiving however will have a cat and mouse feel with German snipers.
2. It will no longer be the only unit in the game that has 100% combat power at 50% strength instead it will have 50% combat power.
27 Jan 2014, 09:33 AM
#35
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
why can't we make the two snipers exactly the same, WHY DO THEY NEED TO BE ASYMMETRICAL I DON'T GET IT WHAT BENEFIT DOES IT GIVE THE GAME, WHY DO SOVIETS NEED STRONGER SNIPERS
Why cons and grens need to be asymetrical? Why do germans need non doctrinal upgrades and non researchable abilities?
Why T34 and P4 need to be asymetrical? Why do germans need stronger MBT that also have AA?
Why halftrucks need to be asymnetrical? Why germans need halftruck earlier?
Why penals and pzgs need to be asymetrical? Why germans need non doctrinal assault rifles and AT?
Why rocket arty need to be asymetrical? Why pwerfer deliveres strong alpha strike while katiusha sneezes more, weaker and less accurate rockets over longer time?
BECAUSE THE FACTIONS ARE DIFFERENT!
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
27 Jan 2014, 09:57 AM
#36
Posts: 410
Factions are different, yes.. But when something is OP in the game, you need something to counter it.
Atm soviet snipers only counter is to charge with all your infantry and try to flank from behind to kill them (you have to take a high risk to kill them) if you fail, you will probably have squad loses plus the territory that will be capped because you have your troops at base. This strategy is not viable in these maps where flanking is more dificult (rails and metal, semoskyi summer,etc) Of course that might be balanced in 1v1 (because we don't ususally see T1 snipers in 1v1's) but remember that there's a lot of people playing 2v2 games as well, and it's here when it becomes unbalanced.
Atm soviet snipers only counter is to charge with all your infantry and try to flank from behind to kill them (you have to take a high risk to kill them) if you fail, you will probably have squad loses plus the territory that will be capped because you have your troops at base. This strategy is not viable in these maps where flanking is more dificult (rails and metal, semoskyi summer,etc) Of course that might be balanced in 1v1 (because we don't ususally see T1 snipers in 1v1's) but remember that there's a lot of people playing 2v2 games as well, and it's here when it becomes unbalanced.
27 Jan 2014, 10:07 AM
#37
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Factions are different, yes.. But when something is OP in the game, you need something to counter it.
Not to burst your bubble, but only real OP thing in game is TA.
Atm soviet snipers only counter is to charge with all your infantry and try to flank from behind to kill them (you have to take a high risk to kill them) if you fail, you will probably have squad loses plus the territory that will be capped because you have your troops at base. This strategy is not viable in these maps where flanking is more dificult (rails and metal, semoskyi summer,etc) Of course that might be balanced in 1v1 (because we don't ususally see T1 snipers in 1v1's) but remember that there's a lot of people playing 2v2 games as well, and it's here when it becomes unbalanced.
Scout car(even if you loose it in the process), mortars, not stupidly used german sniper, G43 grens, rnade over the ledge or house.
There are plenty of counters, how do you play them is another story. You can't say that scout car is bad counter if you choose to bum rush cons, hoping they won't AT nade you.
Scout cars can easily take half the map flank and jump the sniper from behind for guaranteed kill, even if its in M3. If there are guards, then there are no shocks and you can move in G34 grens easily, you might take some looses, but sniper will as well.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
28 Jan 2014, 01:00 AM
#38
Posts: 29
...
It will no longer be the only [EDIT: INFANTRY] unit in the game that has 100% combat power at 50% strength instead it will have 50% combat power.
my suggestion of cutting the sight radius to that of a normal unit when 1 model gets killed addresses this exact issue.
31 Jan 2014, 06:10 AM
#39
Posts: 301
Guys, you missing one point in snipers defference. Every kill from germans sniper make any soviet unit hit the ground. That makes him MORE greater that soviet sniper team with 2 man/girls. Then sovsnipteam hit any of german infatry squad they do not put the dirt and just continue to run in. This is such nice thing Brave germans vs asymetrical Soviets.
BECAUSE THE FACTIONS ARE DIFFERENT!
Brave germans vs asymetrical Soviets.BECAUSE THE FACTIONS ARE DIFFERENT!
31 Jan 2014, 16:41 PM
#40
Posts: 236
Guys, you missing one point in snipers defference. Every kill from germans sniper make any soviet unit hit the ground. That makes him MORE greater that soviet sniper team with 2 man/girls. Then sovsnipteam hit any of german infatry squad they do not put the dirt and just continue to run in. This is such nice thing
BECAUSE THE FACTIONS ARE DIFFERENT!
We understand the factions are different and we want them to remain different, but that doesn't mean the current state of everything is balanced. Although what you say is true, that is a minor feature especially since soviet conscripts are a 6 man squad vs a 4 man grenadier squad. 1 shot from soviets is 25% damage to german. 1 shot from germans is only approx. 17% damage to soviets. If that makes sense.
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