Penal Battalion anyone?
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23 Jan 2014, 03:07 AM
#41
Posts: 4928
Penals have 2x Flamethrower upgrade. Arguably this makes them carry on into the late-game better than Assault Grenadiers. I still think they should be cheaper though.
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23 Jan 2014, 04:01 AM
#42
7 
Posts: 1664
Penals have 2x Flamethrower upgrade. Arguably this makes them carry on into the late-game better than Assault Grenadiers. I still think they should be cheaper though.
Is this your suggestion for a buff? Penals get one flame-thrower.
23 Jan 2014, 06:38 AM
#43
Posts: 531
penals vs ostruppen
do it sometime, the penals can take out about 3-4 squads before losing even a single member
keep em at 360, people who use em well are unbeatable
do it sometime, the penals can take out about 3-4 squads before losing even a single member
keep em at 360, people who use em well are unbeatable
23 Jan 2014, 07:30 AM
#44
Posts: 4928
Is this your suggestion for a buff? Penals get one flame-thrower.
I'm sure it's 2, but I could be mistaken.
penals vs ostruppen
do it sometime, the penals can take out about 3-4 squads before losing even a single member
keep em at 360, people who use em well are unbeatable
Osttruppen will barely kill Engineers. They're not a good point of reference to anything but Partisans.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
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23 Jan 2014, 08:14 AM
#45
Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41
I'm sure it's 2, but I could be mistaken.
I think they got two back in beta.
They've only gotten one since release 6 months ago.
penals vs ostruppen
do it sometime, the penals can take out about 3-4 squads before losing even a single member
keep em at 360, people who use em well are unbeatable
Nevermind that this ain't going to happen because the osttruppen will, percentage change wise, kill a penal model every volley in this situation so you'd need absolutely insane luck...hell you'd need luck just to win that engagement unless you have the flamethrower and the osties aren't spread out. Remember, no armor. On the other hand for only 80mp more you can get shocks who will probably only lose one member in this fight.
23 Jan 2014, 08:49 AM
#46
7 Posts: 1664
I'm sure it's 2, but I could be mistaken.
Have you even played since beta lol?
23 Jan 2014, 08:58 AM
#47
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Have you even played since beta lol?
It can also show how often penals are seen on battlefield
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
3 Mar 2014, 19:04 PM
#48
Posts: 680
Is the flamerupgrade worth doing on these guys or its better not to? Or should you always upgrade them if you have the muni?
3 Mar 2014, 19:27 PM
#49
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Is the flamerupgrade worth doing on these guys or its better not to? Or should you always upgrade them if you have the muni?
I guess its worth it. I like them more without it, but there is no real drawback to it.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
3 Mar 2014, 21:56 PM
#50
Posts: 1003
Is the flamerupgrade worth doing on these guys or its better not to? Or should you always upgrade them if you have the muni?
With flames you lost firepower on distance, but you can hunt PzG.
I want to have the same chance, to win for each side.
3 Mar 2014, 22:07 PM
#51
4 Posts: 550 | Subs: 1
The armour is ok and makes the unit perfect to utilise merge. One could have a look at the initial cost and population requirement (9) since it is equal to elite infantry, which they're clearly not quite.
Their vet bonuses are something one could look at as well.
Their vet bonuses are something one could look at as well.
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3 Mar 2014, 22:10 PM
#52
Posts: 125
There are extremely few situations I'd ever pick Penals over a Sniper squad.
7 Mar 2014, 04:56 AM
#53
Posts: 344
If they were 6 pop instead of 9, I'd tolerate them. Right now they just eat too much pop.
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7 Mar 2014, 06:04 AM
#54
Posts: 409
If Penals are going to be made cheaper then AGrens need to be too; otherwise 1 Penal would pretty much make them 100% useless (let's face it, that commander is already pretty useless).
Remember AGrens do pretty much no damage until they're on top of the enemy, in which case a Penal can just throw a satchel (or upgrade to flamer, both work).
Penals are my go-to unit when I play in 2v2 (not a fan of the abusive sniper car + guard strat) and I just start laughing when I see AGrens coming towards my troops.
Remember AGrens do pretty much no damage until they're on top of the enemy, in which case a Penal can just throw a satchel (or upgrade to flamer, both work).
Penals are my go-to unit when I play in 2v2 (not a fan of the abusive sniper car + guard strat) and I just start laughing when I see AGrens coming towards my troops.
7 Mar 2014, 07:35 AM
#55
Posts: 138
There's been some discussion in the balance thread about penals recently here.
Most people would like to see a cost decrease/upkeep decrease/pop decrease, with a few tweaks, changing the amount of SVT-40 rifles they have from 6-3, but change the dps so that they still do the same amount of damage they do now. That way, their damage doesn't drop off so quickly when they take casualties.
Most people would like to see a cost decrease/upkeep decrease/pop decrease, with a few tweaks, changing the amount of SVT-40 rifles they have from 6-3, but change the dps so that they still do the same amount of damage they do now. That way, their damage doesn't drop off so quickly when they take casualties.
9 Mar 2014, 00:01 AM
#56
Posts: 1042
I think what needs to be considered with penals are their direct equivalent Pgrens. I never see a game without Pgrens, either spammed or just used. It's rare to see a game with Penals. Pgrens combine awesome AI which will drill through all Soviet units with the exception of doctrinal Shocks. Meanwhile they can also upgrade to shreks and be able to destroy most Soviet tanks in a couple of volleys whilst still having reasonable AI and gaining plenty of vet which will increase their AI.
Meanwhile, Penals have okay AI (it's too easy for the enemy to either run forward or rifle nade them or have an MG42 or be pgrens)and zero effective AT (satchel is too easy to dodge). Compare it to Pgrens and I think I know what comes out on top. Both units currently costing the same just takes the biscuit.
Meanwhile, Penals have okay AI (it's too easy for the enemy to either run forward or rifle nade them or have an MG42 or be pgrens)and zero effective AT (satchel is too easy to dodge). Compare it to Pgrens and I think I know what comes out on top. Both units currently costing the same just takes the biscuit.
9 Mar 2014, 07:50 AM
#57
Posts: 138
I think what needs to be considered with penals are their direct equivalent Pgrens. I never see a game without Pgrens, either spammed or just used. It's rare to see a game with Penals. Pgrens combine awesome AI which will drill through all Soviet units with the exception of doctrinal Shocks. Meanwhile they can also upgrade to shreks and be able to destroy most Soviet tanks in a couple of volleys whilst still having reasonable AI and gaining plenty of vet which will increase their AI.
Meanwhile, Penals have okay AI (it's too easy for the enemy to either run forward or rifle nade them or have an MG42 or be pgrens)and zero effective AT (satchel is too easy to dodge). Compare it to Pgrens and I think I know what comes out on top. Both units currently costing the same just takes the biscuit.
I think you hit the nail on the head. To get Penals you have to go T1, which means you have 0 effective AT until you can get t3/t4, which means you really struggle against an early FHT/get picked to pieces by upgunned SC... Once again this forces you to go Guards, which are also more MP, and reduce the amount of Cons you can field, reducing your capping power and potentially leaving snipers (why else would you go t1) unsupported.
And it's just not viable enough to go Sniper/guards/penals. Together they're too MP intensive for what they offer, when Con's can effectively do what Penals do just as well, cost significantly less and give you AT support once you have AT grenades.
9 Mar 2014, 12:56 PM
#58
Posts: 24
The penal battalion should be used as they supposed to be used ,as a suicide squad.
They were used to clear mines for other troops charge bunkers ,pill boxes it did not matter how many died as long as they succeeded.
They should have the least amount of suppression than any infantry unit making them a lot more scary to use versus mg's and bunkers.
Plus the demo charge strapped to one of the men instead of being able to throw it
So you can click on the demo charge before you attack risking a it getting hit and exploding or clicking after you succeeded reaching the target.
I suppose relic could play around with the AI to make a least 1 man survive
They were used to clear mines for other troops charge bunkers ,pill boxes it did not matter how many died as long as they succeeded.
They should have the least amount of suppression than any infantry unit making them a lot more scary to use versus mg's and bunkers.
Plus the demo charge strapped to one of the men instead of being able to throw it
So you can click on the demo charge before you attack risking a it getting hit and exploding or clicking after you succeeded reaching the target.
I suppose relic could play around with the AI to make a least 1 man survive
9 Mar 2014, 13:42 PM
#59
Posts: 4928
That's not really how they were used though, they were mostly used to take the heat off normal troops. On a large scale this meant stationing them at the part of the line most likely to take heavy casualties. On the small scale it meant dressing them up in dark uniforms (during winter) and parading them ahead of the main infantry force.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
9 Mar 2014, 14:51 PM
#60
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
The penal battalion should be used as they supposed to be used ,as a suicide squad.
Ways who? In game description says they are up to the hardest tasks and complete them because they have nothing to loose. What indicates anything about suicide squad instead of mentally ill players who for some reason are stuck with that delusion?
They were used to clear mines for other troops charge bunkers ,pill boxes it did not matter how many died as long as they succeeded.
Well, it matters since they are 360mp troop, meaning they are elite troops just as guards and PGs. They should perform as such.
They should have the least amount of suppression than any infantry unit making them a lot more scary to use versus mg's and bunkers.
Would change absolutely nothing, because of incredibly short range on satchel, you either flank perfectly or press retreat.
Plus the demo charge strapped to one of the men instead of being able to throw it
They are not japanese or muslims.
So you can click on the demo charge before you attack risking a it getting hit and exploding or clicking after you succeeded reaching the target.
I suppose relic could play around with the AI to make a least 1 man survive
Stop confusing them with golliaths/banelings, they are not. They are a squad that is suppose to excel at long/mid range combat and building clearing, they fail miserably at first part for their cost.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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