Hmmm 2 v 2 issue: Guards and Shocks

This isn't a whine about OP Soviet units.

I played a 2 v 2 yesterday versus two Soviets. They both went with doctrines that gave them specialist infantry (Shocks / Guards) and 120mm mortars. This allowed them to go T2 support weapon spam, lots of MGs and 3 x ZiS on the field.

We were playing Rails and Metal. When I saw shocks I decided to go for a flame halfie, which was promptly brewed up by lurking guards with AT rifles, and of course the homing AT nades of the 'scripts.

The synergy of doctrines in 2 v 2 seems very powerful, especially the specialist infantry options that allow support unit spam (srsly, the amount of mortar fire raining down was incredible). I chose assgrens to try and counter shocks and got my ass handed to me.

Any ideas as how to manage this problem?

In the spirit of this forum assume I've L2P etc.

If you loss your flamer ht to gaurds right away you used it wrong. you should always screen troops infront of your flamer ht to see what is in the area and then hit the weakest point, where there is little AT to kill you.

Assgrens are a horrible choice vs. shocks. From an infantry stand point you should use grens with g-43's or lmgs and probably an mg to deal with shocks as well as a t2 vechile as germans. To deal with guards just get pgrens.

If you got your FHT at a reasonable time they shouldn't be able to have both gaurds and shocks all over the map espically on a map as big as Rails and metal which is the kind of map you generally have one player in charge of one side with minor help from the other player (othwerwise they just gave you a side from free). So there should be some place you can push with it that won't die to AT.

If he is getting a lot of 120 mortars you can counter with the mortar ht or simply just infantry since each player shouldn't have more then 1 and each player has to control both sides and if has more then one just flank him. late game you should have atleast one of you go t4 and get panzerwherfers that will deal with all the support weapons.

If they are getting a lot of maxims then you need an mg42 to slow them done and some mortar fire, and possibly a sniper to deal with them.

1 cp shocks and gaurds are not op, what your describing is a combined arms soviet army you need to respond in kind with one of your own. If they are bunching up then that means that they are weak some place else and you or your ally should exploit that and prevent them from being able to just leave one unit or so to lock down a side.

Can we call in Knight Cross from France in 1 CP and claiming it is fine?

0CP: Univeral mines
Pioneers can now plant univeral mines for 30 munis

1CP: Heroes of the Reich
Call in 6 men Knight Cross with 450 MP

2CP: Veteran Pak crew
Pak40 can now have camo and much more accurate shooting at Soviet Panzer, and will no longer waste shells at enemy infantry

5CP: Heavy Reconnaissance Sonderkraftfahrzeug 234
Call in SdKfz 234 (Puma) for 280MP /35 fuel

12CP: King Tiger

Relic please do it, I will buy this doctrine even with 10 bucks.

@Porygon: That doctrine would probably be priced at $60.

Pls. calm yourself, or stop posting. In this topic you only spam.

Pls. calm yourself, or stop posting. In this topic you only spam.

You're funny, I like you.

You're funny, I like you.

I like you too.
Happy new year friend.
New beginnig and peace?

I like you too.
Happy new year friend.
New beginnig and peace?

As long as you don't go full retard

Happy new year to you!

* sigh *

I play Soviets too. I *like* playing Soviets. I frequently roller-coaster over German teams in 3 v 3 and 4 v 4 matches and worry about how easy it is.

I simply want both factions to be supercool.

Exactly I just want a fair game, reason why I hate the commanders system, I just want everyone to have the same game so it's fair on both sides.

Exactly I just want a fair game, reason why I hate the commanders system, I just want everyone to have the same game so it's fair on both sides.

It's a little too late for that - the Soviet faction is essentially designed around picking a goddamn commander.

It's a little too late for that - the Soviet faction is essentially designed around picking a goddamn commander.

So was Americans and Wehrmacht in VCoH.

The main problem with Sovs is that they seem to have the best of all worlds

a) Gimmicks (single abilities) which can beat down the most powerful of the Ostheer
b) Strong call-in infantry available very early, much better than any call ins Ost has (If you were lucky, you'd see 1 rangers/Airborne squad in the first 10 minutes)
c) Support weapon sizes
d) Cheap gimmicky tanks
e) Mines
f) A Crits/RNG system clearly favouring numbers over strength

When all of these are combined together, you get a very ridiculous side which doesn't take too much skill to win with. It's no wonder the SNF score's around, what 25-10 now?

Its no wonder not too many ppl are playing. I mean, you can only play against Brits for so long...

So was Americans and Wehrmacht in VCoH.

The main problem with Sovs is that they seem to have the best of all worlds

a) Gimmicks (single abilities) which can beat down the most powerful of the Ostheer
b) Strong call-in infantry available very early, much better than any call ins Ost has (If you were lucky, you'd see 1 rangers/Airborne squad in the first 10 minutes)
c) Support weapon sizes
d) Cheap gimmicky tanks
e) Mines
f) A Crits/RNG system clearly favouring numbers over strength

When all of these are combined together, you get a very ridiculous side which doesn't take too much skill to win with. It's no wonder the SNF score's around, what 25-10 now?

Its no wonder not too many ppl are playing. I mean, you can only play against Brits for so long...

Soviet are just way more forgiving than Ostheer.

4-man squads are just more likely to get wiped than 6-man squads.
Expensive upgrades punish you more severely when investing in the wrong upgrade or losing the upgraded unit compared to cheap or universal upgrades.
Having expensive tanks makes losing them way more dramatic than losing a cheap tank.

There are, what, three infantry call-ins for Ost?

1. Osttruppen - useful in their own way but hardly an OMG HE'S FIELDING THOSE! type unit.

2. Arty commander - Wow.

3. AssGrens - Cheaper than Shocks and it shows.

It wouldn't be too bad if a Gren squad felt slightly more substantial than a 'scripts. But they don't.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. The old 70/30 ost - sov ratio is dead, its not 50/50 or sometimes marginally in favour of sovs.

As I say, I like the faction, but want to see some parity. My sov play feels more flexible with more options, as ost I seem to make the same stuff out of necessity all the time.

It depends where you play and your level, I think.

I rarely get to play germans because player distribution id 70/30 in their favour and I'm not gonna wait that long for a game. So I switch to soviets.

Even if the OH is at a disadvantage - which I'm certainly not convinced about - player distribution tells that it's not such a big deal as some people here try to make of it. Or else all those players would hardly play OH most of the time.

You don't know why players choose Ost. You are postulating it is because they are better. I disagree. I think more people choose Ost because they are easier to pick up and play. Unless you have more evidence you cannot state this as fact.

Based on my experience and replays I believe there are a number of abilities that currently favor the Soviets and the small proportion of players searching is a poor way to decide balance. Keep in mind at any one time 100's of players (all in 50/50 split games) are competing. A tiny minority is searching simultaneously, and these few may favor one side or another at any time.

Soviet are just way more forgiving than Ostheer.

Only with infantry and support.

Tank battle is in favour for Ostheer. OH have stronger tanks with better armour and another armour + with vet2. Blitz and smoke very help in survival too.
As Soviet you cannot make mistake with tank.

Only with infantry and support.

Tank battle is in favour for Ostheer. OH have stronger tanks with better armour and another armour + with vet2. Blitz and smoke very help in survival too.
As Soviet you cannot make mistake with tank.

I'm afraid you missunderstood me here. German tanks are better and therefore cost more which is perfectly fine.

From a gameplay perspective this means that losing a t-34 or a su-85 as a soviet player doesn't hurt as much as losing a panther or PIV as a german player. So in conclusion soviet tank play is more forgiving than german tank play.

I'm afraid you missunderstood me here. German tanks are better and therefore cost more which is perfectly fine.

From a gameplay perspective this means that losing a t-34 or a su-85 as a soviet player doesn't hurt as much as losing a panther or PIV as a german player. So in conclusion soviet tank play is more forgiving than german tank play.

You hit it on the head, Gustav.

Soviets are more forgiving because they get 6-man squads for the same price as 4-man squads. Although they have the same survivability against small arms, Soviets are more resilient to all other types of damage (flame, explosive, etc.) at the same cost.

Meanwhile, vehicle costs on both factions do differ, so there's no inherent advantage gained by Ostheer for having tougher tanks as they do have to pay for them.

Soviets are more forgiving because they get 6-man squads for the same price as 4-man squads. Although they have the same survivability against small arms, Soviets are more resilient to all other types of damage (flame, explosive, etc.) at the same cost.

Soviet get 6-man squad, to balance it out germans get 4 members with 1.5 armor. Soviet support teams keep 6 member, while ost support teams don't benefit from 1.5 armor anymore. Also armor doesnt protect u from explosion and flames, additionally Soviets have a lot of one-shot AI capabilities (Precision strike, IS2, ISU, KV2, lucky katyusha barrage, mine, grenades even a lucky t34 shot. Then yes, soviets currently are more forgiving, while german squads are more exposed to a squad wipe.

You don't know why players choose Ost. You are postulating it is because they are better. I disagree. I think more people choose Ost because they are easier to pick up and play. Unless you have more evidence you cannot state this as fact.

Based on my experience and replays I believe there are a number of abilities that currently favor the Soviets and the small proportion of players searching is a poor way to decide balance. Keep in mind at any one time 100's of players (all in 50/50 split games) are competing. A tiny minority is searching simultaneously, and these few may favor one side or another at any time.

So, you are just postulating the opposite.

What's the point?

He wants a random button like i do.