Germans are bad

Just wanna point out, I know it's a game but how come a Brummbar have so "weak" frontal armor and Tiger so "heavy", difference was 20mm, brumm had 100m with the slope, but it goes down by the su85 or 76 like carving knife through butter. And just one more thing referencing to your recent t34 buff...

As the war went on, the T-34 gradually lost some of its initial advantage. By the end of 1943, it had become a relatively easy target for German 75 mm-armed tanks and anti-tank guns, while hits from 88 mm-armed Tigers, anti-aircraft guns, and PaK 43 anti-tank guns usually proved lethal. Not even the T-34-85 upgrade mitigated this: a German Army study dated October 5, 1944 showed that a Panther tank could easily penetrate the turret of a T-34-85 from the front at ranges up to 2000 m, and the frontal hull armour at 3000 m


When new German tanks types with thicker armour began appearing in late 1942, the T-34's 76.2 mm cannon was unable to deal with them. As a result, the T-34 was upgraded to the T-34-85 model. This model, with its 85 mm (3.35 in) ZiS gun, provided greatly increased firepower compared to the previous T-34/76 gun. The 85 mm gun could penetrate the front of a Tiger I tank between 200 and 500 m (220 and 550 yd). Against the frontal armour of the Panther tank, the T-34-85 could only penetrate the non-mantlet part of the Panther turret at 500 m (550 yd), meaning that even upgraded models of the T-34 usually had to flank a Panther to destroy it.

AND REALLY, buff range of the stug and frontal armor, it's SHIT ATM.

I know it's just a game but really, soviet guns are so good atm...

^While all of your points are true (and I support them, as a history buff), I think this might raise balance concerns.

The StuG getting a buff and/or (preferably *or*) price reduction would be very fitting and proper. Dammit, it has the highest kill/loss ratio of any German AFV in the war--it should be damn more effective than the PaK 36 on kettenkrad treads we have now.

German has great AT troops - PZgrens
Russian has shitty long barrelled good for 6 minutes AT troop - guards.

Also don't understand what exactly you are referring to as bad?
Panther - best tank in the game
pz4 - best multi-purpose tank in the game
Elefant - OP like hell
Tiger ACE - LMFAO a joke how OP it is

I use the brumbar quite a lot, but never without a panther supporting it. Panther takes the hits to frontal armour from AT guns, and Brum rolls in to blow them up

Germans are so bad no one wants to play them...

Germans have AT troops? PZGRENS? Really man? Do u play this game? If you send 2 units of pgrens with shrecks on 2 t34s, average lifetime of unit is 3 sec even in green cover man... They are so soft

Elefant op? You have to pray to RNG gods to hit something, Tiger ACE? Yeah its cool but with good combined arms tactics its really crap, if it lands on a mine GG tiger ace, its not like people think it is, a good player can handle it very easy.

Yeah Panther is a good tank but what when it meets infantry? SU85 atm does more dmg than an MG42, sniping everything

Volksy, yeah it might raise balance buff but hey, in real war there were 6 t34s on 1 panther or tiger, nowadays the similiar situation is in the game (AND I LOVE IT, + to realism in game) but german tanks cant handle t34 spam really they simply cant, with soviet industry you get 5 tanks in 11 mins. "Go for fast tier2" they said, and what if you simply lose a PG unit due to cons spam? What then? GG

It is a game! It is designed around playability, not realism.

If it was to be realistic then all the "super" tanks will also have a random chance of either breaking down or running out of fuel. And while the pV's and PVI's would pwn T-34's, there would be 10-20 T-34's to each German tank. Also some German tank and artillery shells would be duds (not always the best idea to have slave labor destined to die making the ammunition on which your troops rely).

Germans have AT troops? PZGRENS? Really man? Do u play this game? If you send 2 units of pgrens with shrecks on 2 t34s, average lifetime of unit is 3 sec even in green cover man... They are so soft

Elefant op? You have to pray to RNG gods to hit something, Tiger ACE? Yeah its cool but with good combined arms tactics its really crap, if it lands on a mine GG tiger ace, its not like people think it is, a good player can handle it very easy.

Yeah Panther is a good tank but what when it meets infantry? SU85 atm does more dmg than an MG42, sniping everything

Volksy, yeah it might raise balance buff but hey, in real war there were 6 t34s on 1 panther or tiger, nowadays the similiar situation is in the game (AND I LOVE IT, + to realism in game) but german tanks cant handle t34 spam really they simply cant, with soviet industry you get 5 tanks in 11 mins. "Go for fast tier2" they said, and what if you simply lose a PG unit due to cons spam? What then? GG

ur an idiot

I agree with the OP.

I know the game has to be balanced but seeing as how the developers flipped the roles and to some extend TOTALLY left out realism is a bit dull.

1) In reality Germans tried to keep the range to enemy tanks and Russians tried to close in to actually hit something or penetrate the armor of heavier German tanks.

Ingame the Germans have to blitzkrieg their Panthers etc. to actually hit a Su85 which otherwise could just sit there and snipe them. This is jsut ridicolous if you have any clue of history.

2) In reality the Elefant could fire around 6-8 rounds per minute, the ISU-152 could fire 1 round every minute and the IS-2 could fire about 1-2 rounds per minute.

Ingame they all have about the same rate of fire. This isn´t only ridicolous form a histroci point of view but the instant squad wipes those heavy splash weapons of the Russian vehicles do, is also a major balance concern. I´m not talking about realistic reload times, but one shot every 15-20 seconds for those vehicles would be appropriate with some slight buffs elsewhere.

3) Panzerfausts were the biggest fear of Soviet tankers.

Ingame they are a nice gimmick to create an engine damage, nothing more.

5) Schrecks were also the most effective hand held anti tank weapon of the war. Ingame Panzergrens get two of them to shoot one salvo on T-34s and then run away. I´m not dissapointed by their performance, but giving them two Schrecks

You guys are right,lets drop the balance and give the Germans their super tanks. Lets make all Germans tanks impenetrable from the front, make all at weapons and tank guns one hit t34s. Lets give the super l33t Germans their OMGIPWNuNOOB tanks. Come on relic wheres the king tiger??????

Dont forget irl in the battke of kursk all the ferdinands broke down because thwy tried to fo up that hill. Leaving the germans with only the stug. Elephant was a pos sorry to say. Real life baaaaaaddddddd.

Germans have AT troops? PZGRENS? Really man? Do u play this game? If you send 2 units of pgrens with shrecks on 2 t34s, average lifetime of unit is 3 sec even in green cover man... They are so soft

Elefant op? You have to pray to RNG gods to hit something, Tiger ACE? Yeah its cool but with good combined arms tactics its really crap, if it lands on a mine GG tiger ace, its not like people think it is, a good player can handle it very easy.

Yeah Panther is a good tank but what when it meets infantry? SU85 atm does more dmg than an MG42, sniping everything

Volksy, yeah it might raise balance buff but hey, in real war there were 6 t34s on 1 panther or tiger, nowadays the similiar situation is in the game (AND I LOVE IT, + to realism in game) but german tanks cant handle t34 spam really they simply cant, with soviet industry you get 5 tanks in 11 mins. "Go for fast tier2" they said, and what if you simply lose a PG unit due to cons spam? What then? GG

You are taking about 1 doctrine - Soviet industry. Yes I agree it's a stupid doctrine giving an unfair advantage. In future maybe try writing your post more clearly, and by the way, 2 schreck squads OWN T34/76, if you can't manage that, learn to play

And the stug was a more than capable weapon. Which it was pre nerf.

I agree the role reversal thing is just silly. Germans have to rush and flank tanks while soviets can outrange Germans. As Germans you almost have to suicide tanks to be able to even get close to do damage. The soviets simply outrange, outnumber and outperform every German counterpart. P4s can barely even deal with 1 t34 anymore.

Panthers have to rush a su 85 to win. You can only beat Soviet
Heavy tanks with Heavy tanks. Most Soviet heavy tanks will wipe out small german squads in 1 shot, while all German heavies have lackluster anti-infantry performance.

The Brummbar which is suppose to be the cream of the crop of German anti infantry, barely kills 1 unit per shot and relies on luck to actually get any kills, while the 152 has almost artillery range and will wipe any inf out in one hit. The Brummbar is less effective than a t70, not even close to the effectiveness of a kv-8.

I once read the lead designer explain they built the army they felt they would need to fight a war. Clearly they only meant Soviets. Germans have no light armor, infantry has no regular grenades. Only one non off map barrage weapon in late game, which costs as much fuel as a tank. No elite infantry, no effective recon units.

Soviets also have lots heavy arty, while Germans can only call on railway arty for heavy bombardment.

The disparities between the 2 armies are huge. The complete domination of Soviets in Snf cleary shines a light on this.

I disagree, german is best, the tiger is a beast, but the panzergrenadiers are weak comparate to shock (invencible armor), shock troops never die man... Only tiger kill it with one shot, a Pz4 get 1 minute to kill that...

I play only with T0 and T2 units.. For economize resources...

The russes dont need economize, this is a problem...

Tiger is beast, but wait 16 tiers and lock resources too...

You guys are right,lets drop the balance and give the Germans their super tanks. Lets make all Germans tanks impenetrable from the front, make all at weapons and tank guns one hit t34s. Lets give the super l33t Germans their OMGIPWNuNOOB tanks. Come on relic wheres the king tiger??????

They actually sadly did this in alpha and early beta. I still remember when the panther had a the same HP of the tiger lol. The stug was 50 fuel. The elefant was part of t4, and lastly t34s couldn't penetrate tank's rear armor lol. The SU85 barely penetrated the frontal armor of panthers back then.


Oh the best part were the idiots damage controlling, I remember dane saying, "guys flank the panther"


Look guys, Relic attempted to make it like this, but it was awfully balanced. I mean terrible, even the balance were embarrassed about this.

But in all seriousness, I think armor combat is fine besides the stug. I know it's a mobile At-Gun like what stephan and claw say but it really needs an frontal armor buff. Same with the brummbar.

This is just filled with whining from other players.

Panther is meant for Anti-Tank only of course it's going to suck against infantry because it has an AP shell, even the panther from company of heroes 1 was bad against infantry because it was intended to do that. Plus making the Panther good against infantry will one make tiger less appealing to purchase.

Look they tried to make it realistic with armored warfare but it made the game a pile of turd.

Im guessing you are on those players who just send their pgrens as a blob expecting them to act like a tank, don't your hear them say, "god damn we are panzergrenaiders not panzers." The only thing they need to change about panzer shrecks is that they need to decrease the aim time and increase the reload time. We can both agree its ridiculous when pgrens just sit their for 7 seconds aiming at a tank.

SU-85 snipping everything, what game are playing. Again over exaggerating.

The problem with the elefant is that it shoots infantry instead of tanks. It kills su85s in 2 shoots? How are you not satisfied with that.

If you want realism go play men of war. This is an RTS

Elephant dont save nothing, when you buy one, the rus got 3 su85...

And are too slow, the Tiger is much better... But this is Late game...

If you get versus a good russian (spam player), is gg in early game... Shock troops Need for Speed God Mod...

I lost for one guy that throw 7 molotov, and buy 1 t34 1 t70, and i dont have nothing because he use shock troops god mod to fuck my gas resource, 3 vet grenadiers dont take this god mod troop... I think is a cheater...

Get MG42 or a Sniper next time. The meta game has changed so you should adjust your build.
Shocks will annihilate Grens 1 on 1

Get MG42 or a Sniper next time. The meta game has changed so you should adjust your build.
Shocks will annihilate Grens 1 on 1

The problem is that Shock Troops still running into you MG, and the Cons too, and throw molotov or granades... The Shock Troops dont die... OP totaly, like cheat...

The thing is Germans should have better tanks. Historical and balance wise.

Seeing as how the Russians have the advantage in early shock troops, useful mines, 6 men crews, double crewed snipers and overall artillery (120mm, the vet 1 ability, arty on Su76 and Zis) - the least one could do is buff the frontal armor of the Panther and Brummbär. For my taste those things get penetrated way too often.

Not all Germans are bad. I met a lovely girl in Berlin once.