Scout Cars

The issue of Guards raping early game SCs (and thus rendering them obsolete if facing a player with Guards) is because Guards are currently on the field at 1 CP, when it should be 2 or 3. So, the problem there lies with Guards and not the SC itself.

However, I would like:

1) An accuracy buff for the 20mm. I agree with Volksy's point above. It costs 70 munitions and SCs have paper armour anyway, so making them a highly mobile anti-infantry glass cannon when upgraded is not going to destroy balance in any way.

2) More upgrades for light vehicles in general. The 221, 251, M3A1 and M5 could all be given more munition-based upgrades. These have been discussed in a number of other threads, though.

Even before guards became 1 cp, AC's were borderline useless. The 1 cp change was the final nail in the coffin.

Seeing a buff to 20mm cannon would be cool, not even sure you would have to increase cost if this happened. It might also make the T70 more useful in standard play by allowing Ost player to field more AC's and give opportunity for Soviet to tech to T70 to hunt them down.

I also agree upgrades to vehicles could be interesting. I would like to see the M3A1 become a true scout vehicle after the 5 min mark.

Armored cars can definitely use a small buff.

Armored cars can definitely use a small buff.

At the moment it is just a car.

I know this is never going to happen but how about switching the SC to the Infanterie Kompanie and the sniper to Mechanized Kompanie?

I know this is never going to happen but how about switching the SC to the Infanterie Kompanie and the sniper to Mechanized Kompanie?

what for? wont be used anyway

what for? wont be used anyway

OK... then also let it cap

Even in 2v2, I often manage to make my 222 survive untill the end. And it usually gets about 2 stars.

It's a marginally effective unit for sure. It won't win you the war, but more like thin the ranks of your enemy, making it an easier go for the rest of your army

I think you guys are demanding too much of such a cheap unit.

Scout car and T70 need some camuflage option in heavy cover and hold fire ability. Alternative sniper recon.

AHAHAAHAHA..... T-70 a camouflage? BAHHAHAHAHAH!!!!! It`s not OP enough? Maybe give them wings while we are at it too?

I am not at all surprised that you think that.

Nobody is asking for this unit to win the game, they are simply objectively acknowledging the unit could use a slight buff.

Even in 2v2, I often manage to make my 222 survive untill the end. And it usually gets about 2 stars.

It's a marginally effective unit for sure. It won't win you the war, but more like thin the ranks of your enemy, making it an easier go for the rest of your army

I think you guys are demanding too much of such a cheap unit.

Well, if the 221/2 is buffed so should the M3.

I think it could just use a durability buff and that's it.

Failing that, a sight-line increase. What good is a Scout Car that can't bloody see any further than anyone else?

What I read is ppl asking for something like the Puma (and the Puma was directly mentioned): a unit that can engage infantry and drive them off.

While that may be an option by simply increasing the price, I also feel that some players are just being too lazy here. They don't want the hazzle of having to kite infantry. They want an anti-infantry tank that they can park in the middle of the conscript blob.

Well, you know what? I don't like that kind of game. I'm perfectly all right with 221/2 and M3 being paper tanks they are.

How do you want to kite with it? Conscripts have cheap-to-tech-and-use AT grenades which disable engine and guards reliably hit it even on long range with their AT rifles. On top of that it deals very low damage on long range.

There are only 2 units that the scout car counters: Penals and Shocktroopers. However, even they'll deal reasonable damage to it.

Just use the manpower and buy a sniper and use the fuel to tech to something else. It'll be way better than investing micro into kiting with a SC.
Problems the SC has:

1) it's t2, so it's arriving too late to have an impact
2) t2 also offers halftracks, which are superior while costing only marginally more
3) 20mm upgrade is overpriced
4) soviet AT infantry is too effective against it
5) it's damageable by small arms

There's not much you can do apart from either moving it in t1 or buffing it's health/armour massively while making it more expensive.

Here's the thing - I know I'm crap and have the micro skills of a tortoise, but in vCoH I could keep bikes and jeeps alive longer than *both* M3s and scout cars. Their speed / agility had something to do with this I suspect, CoH2 vehicles are strangely clunky when it comes to movement.

I know the CoH2 vehicles have more uses / upgrades (like the autocannon and being able to carry troops) but I still can't keep either alive for more than five minutes.

Here's the thing - I know I'm crap and have the micro skills of a tortoise, but in vCoH I could keep bikes and jeeps alive longer than *both* M3s and scout cars. Their speed / agility had something to do with this I suspect, CoH2 vehicles are strangely clunky when it comes to movement.

I know the CoH2 vehicles have more uses / upgrades (like the autocannon and being able to carry troops) but I still can't keep either alive for more than five minutes.

That's because on CoH 1 it's a lot easier to avoid engine damage on vehicles. Nobody would tech stickies against a bike, because you can kite stickies well with bikes/schwimms and stickies would otherwise delay your teching and units from t1. Also, stickies cost ammo, which most likely are needed for flamers and grenades.

Wehr faust is at t2, does not damage engines and t2 teching will be delayed until the Wehr played has fielded more than 3-4 units which will take 5-6 minutes.

So, both bikes and jeeps have a reasonable timeframe of being useful.

Here's CoH 2:

As soviet you'll train 90% of all your infantry units within the first 3 minutes of the game. After that you can just tech AT nades from your starting fuel because you don't need to build your t1/t2 right away. Since you have no ammo upgrades apart from flamers you can spam molotovs and AT nades once you've researched them.

On top of that you can get 1cp guards which are insane against light vehicles.

How do you want to kite with it? Conscripts have cheap-to-tech-and-use AT grenades which disable engine and guards reliably hit it even on long range with their AT rifles. On top of that it deals very low damage on long range.

I think we mnight be using the scout cars differently then.

There is no way you can avoid taking damage with the SC. Don't ask for a safe no-damage solution.

What you should do is kite at the max range and then pull the SC away for repair when it nears half health. And of course you have to monitor the animation of the target infantry. As soon as something looks like the beginning of an AT-toss, back off. DOn't use move order - it takes too long. Use reverse.

Repair is free in terms of MP, which is so important in the early game.

There are only 2 units that the scout car counters: Penals and Shocktroopers. However, even they'll deal reasonable damage to it.

You are thinking of a 'hard counter', but the SC is only a soft counter to anything. And there's nothing wrong with that. Who says every unit has to be a hard counter to something?

Problems the SC has:

1) it's t2, so it's arriving too late to have an impact
2) t2 also offers halftracks, which are superior while costing only marginally more
3) 20mm upgrade is overpriced
4) soviet AT infantry is too effective against it
5) it's damageable by small arms

There's not much you can do apart from either moving it in t1 or buffing it's health/armour massively while making it more expensive.

@1) No problem since getting to T2 is so easy. Disagree that it is only usefull for a short while.
@2) Not sure what you mean. The FHT costs a boatload of ammo. Saving for that might take too long.
@3) You might have a point here
@4) Soviets have rather few early AT-options. I wouldn't change the AT-nade just because of a scoutcar.
@5) Yes. It's nothing but a car with sme extra plating. It's not a tank.

I still don't see a major problem. The SCs are usefull enough for their costs IMO.

Anyway all this remains me of a little known option: shock nades will also damage or kill SC and HT if you time it right. And ofc so do satchels. It's rather rare to pull that stunt off, but bulky vehicle pathing sometimes makes it an option.

Scout cars are absolutely not useful. Why build one when you can just build grens, which kill better and survive longer and only costs a little more. There is absolutely no additional benefit to the scout car except vs m3s. Its not a soft or hard counter, it's just a placeholder. Half traks without the flame upgrade kills better and survives longer then a scout car. This unit does not fulfill recon, combat or capping roles and is only a manpower and fuel sink.

I think we mnight be using the scout cars differently then.

There is no way you can avoid taking damage with the SC. Don't ask for a safe no-damage solution.

What you should do is kite at the max range and then pull the SC away for repair when it nears half health. And of course you have to monitor the animation of the target infantry. As soon as something looks like the beginning of an AT-toss, back off. DOn't use move order - it takes too long. Use reverse.

Repair is free in terms of MP, which is so important in the early game.


You are thinking of a 'hard counter', but the SC is only a soft counter to anything. And there's nothing wrong with that. Who says every unit has to be a hard counter to something?

What's the point of it then? After 1 cp in 1v1 there always will be either a guard squad or some sort of cons with AT nades if the soviet player has half a braincell.

So, after one (or both) of these únits enter the field the scout car becomes a waste of popcap and resources. You know why? Because it will not be able to deal any damage anymore without being killed or severely damaged within a timeframe of 10 seconds or less.

Just try to use it as a support weapon in a fight against cons + guards + sniper blob, and like... idk... try to kill a single conscript guy with focus fire. Guards will kill the Scout car on long range before it'll deal enough damage to finish off one single conscript.

Also, you can't push infantry with it since cons have AT nades for engine damage that they can buy from their starting fuel 2 minutes into the game

@1) No problem since getting to T2 is so easy. Disagree that it is only usefull for a short while.
If you start with t1 you won't go t2 within the first 4-5 minutes of the game because you'll lack the manpower to field several t1 units + teching to t2.

So, once you've reached t2 and built your t2 it's likely the enemy already either fields a significant amount of cons or guards or he could be able to field AT guns already. Not a good base for building a vehicle that doesn't hard counter any of said units while being hardcountered by 2 of them.

If you actually rush t2 to get a scout car out you'll sacrifice capping power and you'll be overrun by conscripts.

@2) Not sure what you mean. The FHT costs a boatload of ammo. Saving for that might take too long.
Just get a halftrack instead. A NORMAL halftrack. Not even a FHT. Just put the halftrack in the back and use it for reinforcing + mg support. It'll be much more useful than the SC while being very slightly more expensive.
@3) You might have a point here
@4) Soviets have rather few early AT-options. I wouldn't change the AT-nade just because of a scoutcar.
AT gun, AT nades and Guards are more than enough options for AT. Also, guards are OP against light vehicles. Button + atg = instant death to light vehicles. Also, their PTRS got insane long range accuracy.
@5) Yes. It's nothing but a car with sme extra plating. It's not a tank.
Just as a side note: technically the sdkfz 221's armour is very similar to sdkfz 251 halftrack armour (both are ~8-12mm). Yet halftracks ingame are resilient to small arms while the sdkfz isn't.
I still don't see a major problem. The SCs are usefull enough for their costs IMO.

Anyway all this remains me of a little known option: shock nades will also damage or kill SC and HT if you time it right. And ofc so do satchels. It's rather rare to pull that stunt off, but bulky vehicle pathing sometimes makes it an option.
which concludes that it's even useless against those units unless you babysit + micro it.

Added my answers in red. Just read through what you wrote yourself and think about it again. If it can't even fight pure anti infantry units it's the incarnation of worthlessness.

The scout car is in the wrong tier, has wrong stats and thus serves no purpose.

I'd swap the SC for a vCoH schwimm in the blink of an eye.

Just change the SC cost to around 220mp 0 fuel and I'll be happy.