Ostheer since new patch

ISU152 needs a buff??? looooooooool
It wipes out any squad approaching to it in seconds, it can also 3-shot kill a Panzer 4, Elefant needs 4-5 shots to kill it, it counters PaK's, MGS...Mortars.., it is anti-everything, and add to that shocks and guards spamm...

And you want to buff more that thing?

I agree but a lot of people who prefer Soviets feel like it isn't strong enough.. go figure. If the Brummbar was effective at killing infantry as the Isu 152, all hell would break loose.

ISU152 needs a buff??? looooooooool
It wipes out any squad approaching to it in seconds, it can also 3-shot kill a Panzer 4, Elefant needs 4-5 shots to kill it, it counters PaK's, MGS...Mortars.., it is anti-everything, and add to that shocks and guards spamm...

And you want to buff more that thing?

I guess they had their ISU-152 being destroyed by PAK-43 without even realizing it also =)

I agree but a lot of people who prefer Soviets feel like it isn't strong enough.. go figure. If the Brummbar was effective at killing infantry as the Isu 152, all hell would break loose.

Brummbar is VERY effective at killing infantry.

Brummbar is VERY effective at killing infantry.

The difference is that ISU can do it across the map

And it will almost always do it in 1 shot,while 1 shot deaths from Brummbars are rare. What is not rare is Brummbar not killing one entity at all per shot

The difference is that ISU can do it across the map

And is doctrinal, and 11 CP, and twice the fuel cost, and 25 pop.

And is doctrinal, and 11 CP, and twice the fuel cost, and 25 pop.

dont forget 50% more damage, 160 more hp, 20% bigger AOE, and double the penetration.

And is doctrinal, and 11 CP, and twice the fuel cost, and 25 pop.

And the fact that it was made in Mother Russia =)

I feel like the maxim spam and shock spam will go away when both guards and shocks are moved to 2 cp, which relic will most likely do. Guards can come before tier 2 is even built. Guards like I said in another thread, can easily kill these tier 2 vehicles. Once that threat is delayed, now maxims will be extremely vulnerable to tier 2 vehicles and the spam will diminish.

Currently, Tier 2 vehicles are risky and most of the time not worth investing due to early guards. Once that changes, then the nazis won't have to worry about that annoying maxim spam and don't have to pray to the Rng god of mortars.

Shocks come too early, that's the only problem. Now that they are delayed, tier 2 vehicles will be out to eradicate them if the soviet decides to spam them. Which will ultimately make soviet doctrines more situational since if the Nazis went tier 2 vehicles, the soviet will get guards but if the germans got pgrens or lmg grens, then the soviet uses shocks.

shocks just need lower armour OR rifles need to do more dps OR made harder to spam. thats about it. if shocks come at 2cp, they would have no usability, these guys have no AT. there will be no need for shocks anymore.

and guards, if early guards meant something, it means no shocks. spam away with pgrens, not t2 vehicles. get a mht for their maxims and flank flank flank. guards dont stand much of a chance against pgrens. unless u get caught by maxims, then its a user issue not a balance one.

if shocks and guards are both used, its time to tag up with ur mate, not fight 1v1x2

Pretty sure shocks were well used at 2cp's. They don't have AT because they are used by soviets looking to add to their arsenal with AI. Also shocks are free to pick up weapons and make short work of tanks if they get a shrek. That first statement you make is completely incorrect and non-logical.

You can't spam PG's against guards because that player often goes snipers. If you spam PG's you lost on mp bleed. Guards stand a great chance against PG's. You can use their grenades to hurt PG's bad. In addition, I use guards to take on PG's regularly. They just need to be in cover before the PG's arrive. Which they will be because they come out before and you should have map control by then.

Also in a 2v2 shocks and guards are both deployed at the same time. How exactly do you stop these two units when the units designed to stop them are already hard countered before they enter the field?

Wong I really encourage you to read more of Gustav's thread about early elite infantry (http://www.coh2.org/topic/12160/shocktroops-at-1cp). You will learn a lot, and be disabused of the notions that elite troops at 1cp are good.

I also encourage you to link to your player card so I can see just where you sit in the rankings. I am having a really hard time understanding how you are coming to your conclusions. Feel free to look me up my name here is the same as the one I use on Steam.

Pretty sure shocks were well used at 2cp's. They don't have AT because they are used by soviets looking to add to their arsenal with AI. Also shocks are free to pick up weapons and make short work of tanks if they get a shrek. That first statement you make is completely incorrect and non-logical.

You can't spam PG's against guards because that player often goes snipers. If you spam PG's you lost on mp bleed. Guards stand a great chance against PG's. You can use their grenades to hurt PG's bad. In addition, I use guards to take on PG's regularly. They just need to be in cover before the PG's arrive. Which they will be because they come out before and you should have map control by then.

Also in a 2v2 shocks and guards are both deployed at the same time. How exactly do you stop these two units when the units designed to stop them are already hard countered before they enter the field?

Wong I really encourage you to read more of Gustav's thread about early elite infantry (http://www.coh2.org/topic/12160/shocktroops-at-1cp). You will learn a lot, and be disabused of the notions that elite troops at 1cp are good.

I also encourage you to link to your player card so I can see just where you sit in the rankings. I am having a really hard time understanding how you are coming to your conclusions. Feel free to look me up my name here is the same as the one I use on Steam.

QFT

I also encourage you to link to your player card so I can see just where you sit in the rankings. I am having a really hard time understanding how you are coming to your conclusions. Feel free to look me up my name here is the same as the one I use on Steam.

http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561197993238990

Interesting... I've been noticing a lot of elite troops doctrine lately in 2v2+. Pgrens just get sent to Vet2 immediately making them just walking death machines that just charge at your front lines, force everything to retreat and when you've grenaded or whatever the crap out of them they just retreat to do it all over again. It makes it a close game sure, but then you just get spammed by German armour and beaten.
I've found Shock troops just simply aren't good enough when it comes to late game and you need as Soviets everything in order to stop the panzers. Shock troops lack that utility (not complaining about that, it's fair enough, though... why do pgrens get those awesome shreks and also are the best German AI inf around...)
I would agree that guards and shocks come out too early though...

Interesting... I've been noticing a lot of elite troops doctrine lately in 2v2+. Pgrens just get sent to Vet2 immediately making them just walking death machines that just charge at your front lines, force everything to retreat and when you've grenaded or whatever the crap out of them they just retreat to do it all over again. It makes it a close game sure, but then you just get spammed by German armour and beaten.
[...]
I would agree that guards and shocks come out too early though...

Really, 2v2 is a spam fest. Volsk Spam with G43, panzergren (shreks when time has come) spam and mg spam, sniper spam are so disgusting to play against... Every game it's the same joke, one (or both opponents) gets Tiger Ace and then Vet 3 volsk g43/lmg or vet2 sniper appears. Meanwhile, germans are teching up... PANTHER (which is objectively better than Tiger) spam arrives, you loose.
Yesterday night, i did 6 games with my teammate, 5 of them, we played against Tiger Ace. So maybe, germans aren't good if you don't take Tiger bullshit doctrine, but currently, i haven't played a game where the opponents did not take it. The worst thing is this kind of players think they are good.

Yesterday night, i did 6 games with my teammate, 5 of them, we played against Tiger Ace. So maybe, germans aren't good if you don't take Tiger bullshit doctrine, but currently, i haven't played a game where the opponents did not take it. The worst thing is this kind of players think they are good.

It seems to me that the only players left are the ones who were willing to buy crappy OP commanders (although playing vs p2w is more of a concern as Sov because the shock/guard combo is strong enough so you don't see SI every match as Ost, which does not make things better regarding team game balance... -.- ).
Btw: I never bought and (hopefully) will never buy imba commanders (bought no commander at all so far).

If Guards/Shocks get put back to 2cp, everyone and their mom will be using Soviet Industry again.

If Guards/Shocks get put back to 2cp, everyone and their mom will be using Soviet Industry again.

At least you will not loose to Sniper Guards spamm into T-34/85. Serisouly this is the most retarded strat I ever seen.

At least you will not loose to Sniper Guards spamm into T-34/85. Serisouly this is the most retarded strat I ever seen.

I agree. Snipers should not be allowed in M3s.

They are pretty inaccurate and vulnerable in m3s though. But I agree yet another lame sov cheese strat.

They are pretty inaccurate and vulnerable in m3s though. But I agree yet another lame sov cheese strat.

I am interested when OS will get the MG-42 in a Halftrack via DLC and will be getting it at 0 CP, just imagine the Sov Rage of an MG that pins and can move without the need to Setup and De-setup =))