Ostheer since new patch

It is very map-dependant i would say. If soviet bunkers down its really fun to arty on them. Rzhev is a good map for this, pripyat. When playing team I usually skip t3 and go for a panzerwerfer and start bleeding the soviet players. Either shoot at their shocks if you can find them, then ATGs or other semi-static units, lastly fire at Su85s. The thing about arty is you are most likely not going to kill the su85s, but you force them to move about. So use this in conjuction with a push or a flank.

The 120 has actually got nerfed since release, cant remember when though. Its a pain, but something you have to deal with. A solution is to keep mobile, dont leave your crew-weapons at the same spot. Also, try to close in on the opponent so he might mortar himself just as well. Also, the mortar HT (flame barrage)is fantastic to clear 120 mils. Panzerwerfer also does a good job.

We rarely go for elephant, its good to shoot tanks, but expensive and can be rammed. A cheaper thing to get is the pak43, and that vets up silly fast. Situational though, and you will lose it. However, its not very expenisve and more or less payid for itself after 2 tank-kills. It even shoots through buildings and trees, so just place it behind a house and you will have some protection against katyushas.

Lastly, use recon. ALOT. Scout for targets or weakpoints in their defense. Dont let them bunker down to much.

It is very map-dependant i would say. If soviet bunkers down its really fun to arty on them. Rzhev is a good map for this, pripyat. When playing team I usually skip t3 and go for a panzerwerfer and start bleeding the soviet players. Either shoot at their shocks if you can find them, then ATGs or other semi-static units, lastly fire at Su85s. The thing about arty is you are most likely not going to kill the su85s, but you force them to move about. So use this in conjuction with a push or a flank.

The 120 has actually got nerfed since release, cant remember when though. Its a pain, but something you have to deal with. A solution is to keep mobile, dont leave your crew-weapons at the same spot. Also, try to close in on the opponent so he might mortar himself just as well. Also, the mortar HT (flame barrage)is fantastic to clear 120 mils. Panzerwerfer also does a good job.

We rarely go for elephant, its good to shoot tanks, but expensive and can be rammed. A cheaper thing to get is the pak43, and that vets up silly fast. Situational though, and you will lose it. However, its not very expenisve and more or less payid for itself after 2 tank-kills. It even shoots through buildings and trees, so just place it behind a house and you will have some protection against katyushas.

Lastly, use recon. ALOT. Scout for targets or weakpoints in their defense. Dont let them bunker down to much.

This is all advice for the late game, if you get there. When do you get early Panzerwerfers? Those have not been in time to counter 120's since the beta when they were in T3. I don't disagree with your statements, but players cannot wait in their bases until minute 10 and then attack out.

Also it is definitely not map dependent, if you are referring to Soviets being better. Soviets are better right now. Some maps just exaggerate it worse than others.

Another complaint I have right now is the annoying repair station spam in SI. If the game is evenly matched and the SI player gets a KV2 they often start to spam repair bunkers (this is especially true in team games). Can repair bunkers please count against pop; it does not have to be large?

Want to know how russians die forever and comming on spam...

When i dont have nothing they comming with a more and sometimes better infantry army...

Loose tanks, infantry, and comming on...

2v2 is so broken right now, specially when the two soviet players go for Shock troops doctrines, they just spam them and later they get IS2 or KV1 or B4 and german infantry cant do anything vs such amount of shock troops coming to get behind them... Im bored of seeing always that shock spam strategy..

for me, mht does a pretty good job dealing with mg and mortars. 120 takes a long time to desetup and move, incendiary rounds really wreck them. incendiary rounds and regular rounds are also pretty effective against mg and AT guns.

as for shocks, snipers, mg, gren combo deals with them nicely, just consolidate forces and focus fire on flankers. snipers reduces the firepower of shocks nicely, gren fire is still pretty effective against a diminished shocksquad.

also with fire on the move nerfed for tanks and paks cheaper, paks and schrecks are great against t34 spam. paks keeps t34s constantly on the move, shrecks can wreck them without much casualties. making a t2 heavy build quite a solid strategy.

You cant do anything with your infantry if the 2 soviet players go shock spam, they just walk around your infantry like nothing with that super-armor (2.25) and tears apart everything in their paths..its ridiculous.

you can order them to throw a molotov before they get pinned, and they will still throw it despite getting pinned in the meantime. This should get fixed imo.

Not seriously man? Do you expect the molotov to somehow magically disappear mid-air? That would be ridiculous. It doesn't Work like that with any other nades anyway, so why the Molotov?

What the previous poster was getting at, was that you can throw them when pinned. That isn't true.

Not seriously man? Do you expect the molotov to somehow magically disappear mid-air? That would be ridiculous. It doesn't Work like that with any other nades anyway, so why the Molotov?

What the previous poster was getting at, was that you can throw them when pinned. That isn't true.

You are still incorrect. If the order was issued before the pin, and the unit is in range when it is pinned. It will wind up and throw a molotov. This is not if the molotov is in the air.

To test this play against a comp or friend, order a conscript to molotov a single mg42, and watch it crawl towards the mg. If it gets pinned as it approaches and it is in range you will watch a model light a bottle and then throw it at the mg while the unit is pinned. Even though you did the wrong thing (approached the front of a 42 with 1 squad and let it get pinned) you will force off the mg42.

As a side note I believe this is the same for all grenades and it should not happen for any unit (Ost or Sov). If you get pinned you should have two options: 1) retreat, 2) take your beating.

This is most commonly seen with conscripts because they are often suppressed and crawling towards an mg42 to throw, whereas other units tend to stand off and throw their grenades. Also users are more risk adverse to placing higher value units under pin to release a grenade.

You are still incorrect. If the order was issued before the pin, and the unit is in range when it is pinned. It will wind up and throw a molotov. This is not if the molotov is in the air.

To test this play against a comp or friend, order a conscript to molotov a single mg42, and watch it crawl towards the mg. If it gets pinned as it approaches and it is in range you will watch a model light a bottle and then throw it at the mg while the unit is pinned. Even though you did the wrong thing (approached the front of a 42 with 1 squad and let it get pinned) you will force off the mg42.

As a side note I believe this is the same for all grenades and it should not happen for any unit (Ost or Sov). If you get pinned you should have two options: 1) retreat, 2) take your beating.

This is most commonly seen with conscripts because they are often suppressed and crawling towards an mg42 to throw, whereas other units tend to stand off and throw their grenades. Also users are more risk adverse to placing higher value units under pin to release a grenade.

Yes, this is so annoying. I've gotten into the habit of pinning, then immediately repacking the MG and moving further away so I don't get punished for pinning cons, lol so dumb. This and Shocks sitting on your cutoff 2 mins into the game and popping smoke/throwing nades on your MG.....bleh.

The MG42 have a little good time after the patch... But with shock's and Maxim spam, they dont pin nothing, just get pinned or on fire...

Looking at the official forums, the general consensus is that Soviets are too weak. I see calls for buffs to Su 85s and Isu 152s. Then nerf Elefants, panthers, Tigers and p4s. I saw one that said the scout car was easily capable of handling a Su 85 on it's own..... There may be some tweaks here and there, but it's quite obvious Ostheer will never again be formidable, but only just good enough to keep it's head above water.

The MG42 have a little good time after the patch... But with shock's and Maxim spam, they dont pin nothing, just get pinned or on fire...

I had a MG42 set up and the enemy walked in with his Maxim, set up and supressed my MG42 before his Maxim got supressed. Ok, he walked into yellow cover whereas my MG42 was not, but still... maybe I just don't know how to use MG42s properly, but every time I use them they are just being useless. Conscripts just Oorah and run straight through the middle of the firing arc, throw a molotov and win the fight, surely this shouldn't be ever, ever possible at all, yet it happens regularly. I stopped using the unit completely for that reason.

Looking at the official forums, the general consensus is that Soviets are too weak. I see calls for buffs to Su 85s and Isu 152s. Then nerf Elefants, panthers, Tigers and p4s. I saw one that said the scout car was easily capable of handling a Su 85 on it's own..... There may be some tweaks here and there, but it's quite obvious Ostheer will never again be formidable, but only just good enough to keep it's head above water.

Are you sure those aren't old posts?

That sounds like stuff people would say in Q3 last year.

Looking at the official forums, the general consensus is that Soviets are too weak. I see calls for buffs to Su 85s and Isu 152s. Then nerf Elefants, panthers, Tigers and p4s. I saw one that said the scout car was easily capable of handling a Su 85 on it's own..... There may be some tweaks here and there, but it's quite obvious Ostheer will never again be formidable, but only just good enough to keep it's head above water.

And this forum favors Ostheer bias overall. Ost needs tweaks to be sure. But they are hardly as bad as folks on this forum makes them out to be.

The real weakness is their instagibs due to four man squads. But unit for unit they either perform as well for cost and role or perform better.

And for the record the ISU152 does nit perform nearly as welk as one woukd think it shoukd being that it is by far the most expensive unit in game. It needs a price decrease or a buff if relic wants to keep it at the absurd 290 fuel.

And this forum favors Ostheer bias overall. Ost needs tweaks to be sure. But they are hardly as bad as folks on this forum makes them out to be.

The real weakness is their instagibs due to four man squads. But unit for unit they either perform as well for cost and role or perform better.

And for the record the ISU152 does nit perform nearly as welk as one woukd think it shoukd being that it is by far the most expensive unit in game. It needs a price decrease or a buff if relic wants to keep it at the absurd 290 fuel.

+1

i have a mostly easier time with ost than soviets, but that doesnt mean soviets are weak or ost is too powerful. its the difference in the way they are played. get a tight map like pripyat and mg42, mht will reign supreme.

get a wider map, molotovs and conscripts are more effective but no less uncounterable, grenspam + snipers usually put a good stop to conscript + shock spam.

however when late game comes, more and more lethal weapons are deployed and units get 1 shotted. also ost has alot of difficulty recrewing weapon teams. they could use a 2 man recrew, rather than 3. go by percentage, not a solid number to allow flexibility?

honestly speaking i think ost has more balance issues late game. elefants are almost impregnable to anything the soviet has. shots bouncing off tiger rear armour(these should be paper thin, even a greyhound can penetrate the rear armour of a tiger back in vcoh). the only real armour soviet have are the t34/85s and is2. the rest are no longer good.

lastly, this is more of a mechanics issue, tanks vs infantry combat is quite screwed, the variations are way too erratic. sometimes ur 1st shot of the t34/p4 might kill 1-2 models, sometimes it takes 5-6 shots and everything misses. because AI tanks have 0 accuracy against infantry and highly dependent on scatter and AOE for their killing power. this means that going closer to reduce the scatter deviation improves their chance of hitting, i saw this many times before. stay at max range, tanks take forever to kill '
anything, go close up, wipe everything.

yet the day i want to close in to infantry with my tanks will never come since everyone is loaded with vehicle snaring abilities. so this puts medium tanks in a weird spot since they cannot be used as fire support, but only as shock units. this makes t34s/p4 rather useless after the shock phases. since heavier tanks/su85 are fielded slightly later, the moment med tanks show their face, they are immediately hunted down and destroyed.

in vcoh things were more consistent, AT tanks have low accuracy against infantry, AI tanks have high accuracy against them. so these assured hits makes AI tanks reliable against infantry no matter the distance, in turn becoming very effective fire support behind a good infantry screen. i have tried it in games with p4/t34, its a always either me being super lucky and hit something on the 1st shot, or being not so lucky and hit something after 3-4 shots.

as for the vehicle vs infantry, its something that i have observed and experienced, so its sort of a hypothesis. it could very well be just me and perception bias having a delusional orgy.

Not seriously man? Do you expect the molotov to somehow magically disappear mid-air? That would be ridiculous. It doesn't Work like that with any other nades anyway, so why the Molotov?

What the previous poster was getting at, was that you can throw them when pinned. That isn't true.

Well, we both know that he isn't implying that. If the unit hasn't already thrown the molotov, I really mean him throwing the molotov. Then it shouldn't simply work. If he is in the process of throwing it and gets pinned then it should be cancelled. It's like this for every grenade: shocks, guards, agrens, pgrens, stun nades. It's a bug at the momment for molotovs at the momment, I think it's caused by the long duration of the animation.

I feel like the maxim spam and shock spam will go away when both guards and shocks are moved to 2 cp, which relic will most likely do. Guards can come before tier 2 is even built. Guards like I said in another thread, can easily kill these tier 2 vehicles. Once that threat is delayed, now maxims will be extremely vulnerable to tier 2 vehicles and the spam will diminish.

Currently, Tier 2 vehicles are risky and most of the time not worth investing due to early guards. Once that changes, then the nazis won't have to worry about that annoying maxim spam and don't have to pray to the Rng god of mortars.

Shocks come too early, that's the only problem. Now that they are delayed, tier 2 vehicles will be out to eradicate them if the soviet decides to spam them. Which will ultimately make soviet doctrines more situational since if the Nazis went tier 2 vehicles, the soviet will get guards but if the germans got pgrens or lmg grens, then the soviet uses shocks.

Looking at the official forums, the general consensus is that Soviets are too weak. I see calls for buffs to Su 85s and Isu 152s. Then nerf Elefants, panthers, Tigers and p4s. I saw one that said the scout car was easily capable of handling a Su 85 on it's own..... There may be some tweaks here and there, but it's quite obvious Ostheer will never again be formidable, but only just good enough to keep it's head above water.

Well it's simple. The official forums are the first place that new players think if they lose. Soviets are harder to learn compared to Germans, especially since that Germans are relatively familiar to the coh1 counterpart. Am I saying that Germans are easy, hell no, but experienced players know how to exploit soviets more. People right now are just exploiting overpowered things about the game, which is what the forums members on coh2.org are complaining about. Other then that, ever since Nullist left, it's been much more balanced. Still love you nullist and nullist fanclub.

Well on that official forum, well it's chaos, I guarantee Relic don't take them seriously or listen to any of their posts, they only probably listen to the bug's section. They have the private beta for a reason, they listen to experienced players not whiners who are angry. Even though initially, the beta was filled with inexperienced players until they opened up more slots and stefan stopped acting delusional. Without that beta, well lets not imagine the state of that game.

ISU152 needs a buff??? looooooooool
It wipes out any squad approaching to it in seconds, it can also 3-shot kill a Panzer 4, Elefant needs 4-5 shots to kill it, it counters PaK's, MGS...Mortars.., it is anti-everything, and add to that shocks and guards spamm...

And you want to buff more that thing?

ISU152 needs a buff??? looooooooool
It wipes out any squad approaching to it in seconds, it can also 3-shot kill a Panzer 4, Elefant needs 4-5 shots to kill it, it counters PaK's, MGS...Mortars.., it is anti-everything, and add to that shocks and guards spamm...

And you want to buff more that thing?

I don't get it also, it's probably my favorite vehicle to use in the game. And the thing is that it doesn't cost 290 fuel it costs 260. ISU is fine at the moment. Have guards by it to button any flanking vehicle will make it unstoppable especially if you have mark target.