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Shocktroops at 1CP

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Imagelessbean
8 Jan 2014, 15:40 PM
#281
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jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jan 2014, 14:33 PMSgtBulldog
Buffing german units is the answer to every balance thread nowadays. I understand why some like to jump that bandwaggon, but it really won't be good for the game overall.

Isn't the point about the snipers simply, that if they worked as intended and didn't hold fire or get trapped in all kinds of stuff, they would be a decent counter?


The buff suggestion for the Ost sniper has been around for a long time. It is not new. Also to be fair, Ost is likely the underdog right now, so buffing its units makes sense.

As a person with above average micro, I overcome the sniper bug by manual control. Even so it is still not a reliable counter. It is too risky compared to the unit it is trying to counter which is very low risk. Both units provide high reward when used well.
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wooof
8 Jan 2014, 17:25 PM
#282
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Posts: 950 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jan 2014, 03:11 AMRazh
The simple reason the German sniper is better is due to their camo re-entry after firing. They can snipe without ever have to worry about being countersniped (unless they've accumulated camo penalty by shooting rapidly)


german sniper is extremely unreliable at counter sniping. plus, theres no such thing as accumulated camo penalty. what you call a "penalty" is just how long it takes for the sniper to cloak.
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PaRaNo1a
8 Jan 2014, 19:13 PM
#283
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Posts: 600

After getting bored of 1v1 I started playing 2v2+ And I have to say 2-3 Shocks are beatable in the end game but makes it a living hell to accomplish anything in the early game. But the only way to win against a shock strat is
a) Playing against a super retard Sov player who plays shocks passively.
b) Hope that you play against a super retard Sov who blobs them and you manage to pick them off with mortars and a FHT.
or c) You get a decent team mate who actually look at what you build and react accordingly to supplement for what you lack.....
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MoerserKarL
8 Jan 2014, 19:57 PM
#284
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jump backJump back to quoted post21 Dec 2013, 18:12 PMpigsoup
can two gren beat a shock ?


I have lost a battle to shocks, with two grens+lmgs
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Bravus
8 Jan 2014, 23:59 PM
#285
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Posts: 503

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Need less armor to this shock's, or put like 500cp to it...

They survive so many bombs and shots...
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elchino7
9 Jan 2014, 02:42 AM
#286
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NO ONE complained of shocks when they were 2CP, or at least that´s what i remember.

Nevertheless if 1CP elite inf units are to stay, we should check how well the other counters/units are performing.
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rofltehcat
9 Jan 2014, 09:46 AM
#287
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Posts: 604

Just move them "back" to 2 CPs already ~.~
Changing their stats or cost or buffing their counters is a bad idea because this can upset the whole system once more in other ways people don't even consider yet.

Nobody complained about them at the old 1 CP, which is 2 CP in the new system. Their combat power was just the same but their window of dominance was smaller and the other player had more time to build counters. As stated in this thread many times, the German player requires several different units to prevent the Shocks from just destroying everything. Giving him a little more time to get all those different units would already change the whole thing back into a more stable balance state.


In general the new CP system needs to be double-checked because a few other things don't really make sense.
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mythos999
9 Jan 2014, 09:51 AM
#288
avatar of mythos999

Posts: 1

I was always using shocks, they were and are the best infantry in game and i was always wondering why other soviet players using guards or something else. In late game and especialy in team games, shocks were and are the only mean to steal or take the win by capturing the points.
After patch more if not all soviets using shocks and that is the main reason of the unbalance feeling that exist( more shocks than before its the problem, not the 1cp or their stats)
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GustavGans
9 Jan 2014, 10:17 AM
#289
avatar of GustavGans

Posts: 747

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Jan 2014, 09:46 AMrofltehcat
Just move them "back" to 2 CPs already ~.~
Changing their stats or cost or buffing their counters is a bad idea because this can upset the whole system once more in other ways people don't even consider yet.

Nobody complained about them at the old 1 CP, which is 2 CP in the new system. Their combat power was just the same but their window of dominance was smaller and the other player had more time to build counters. As stated in this thread many times, the German player requires several different units to prevent the Shocks from just destroying everything. Giving him a little more time to get all those different units would already change the whole thing back into a more stable balance state.


In general the new CP system needs to be double-checked because a few other things don't really make sense.


+1

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Jan 2014, 09:51 AMmythos999
I was always using shocks, they were and are the best infantry in game and i was always wondering why other soviet players using guards or something else. In late game and especialy in team games, shocks were and are the only mean to steal or take the win by capturing the points.
After patch more if not all soviets using shocks and that is the main reason of the unbalance feeling that exist( more shocks than before its the problem, not the 1cp or their stats)


Ehrm, I do not think so...


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GustavGans
13 Jan 2014, 08:54 AM
#290
avatar of GustavGans

Posts: 747

I actually had more trouble fighting t1/early guards openings lately, at least the sniper gives you some relief against shocks but not against this...

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Cruzz
13 Jan 2014, 09:18 AM
#291
avatar of Cruzz

Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41

To be honest, as a nearly pure 1vs1 player, the early shocks have just been a boon to me. As soviets they let you easily punish people who just spam grens (or go straight for PG spam), and as germans countering people rushing for shocks and then for 9CP tanks is easier than countering any other "viable" strat once you get the hang of it. Sure, they don't require much thought to use and can easily screw you up if you make a big mistake as germans, but they're not particularly hard to counter when things go roughly according to plan.

They seem to be more of a problem in team games where the other player can cover pretty much all the weaknesses of shock spam as the units that counter them (flamepios, snipers, flamehts, scout cars to some extent, mgs) don't scale well against larger numbers of units.
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Aradan
13 Jan 2014, 09:27 AM
#292
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 1003

In team games, when i play as german, i must tech after building three units (gren, mg, gren). If i wait too long, Shock Troops rape me. On 1CP come very fast and sometimes i have luck with second mg, but for me is better tech fast for PzG. I have less tactical posibilites.
But i still learn how play OST. Some thinks are easier, but some harder.
I want to have the same chance, to win for each side.
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Darc Reaver
13 Jan 2014, 09:34 AM
#293
avatar of Darc Reaver

Posts: 194

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2014, 08:54 AMGustavGans
I actually had more trouble fighting t1/early guards openings lately, at least the sniper gives you some relief against shocks but not against this...


This. Snipers + guards is even more ridiculous. At least against Shocks you can use flamer HTs... Against guards it's a sure-waste of 120 ammo.
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TNrg
13 Jan 2014, 17:46 PM
#294
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Posts: 640

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2014, 09:34 AMDarc Reaver


This. Snipers + guards is even more ridiculous. At least against Shocks you can use flamer HTs... Against guards it's a sure-waste of 120 ammo.


In 2v2s the soviets can use a certain strategy that is (IMO) uncounterable in the current patch. Which is ridiculous and definitely doesn't make me want to play many 2v2s as the ostheer.
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elchino7
13 Jan 2014, 18:58 PM
#295
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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2014, 17:46 PMTNrg


In 2v2s the soviets can use a certain strategy that is (IMO) uncounterable in the current patch. Which is ridiculous and definitely doesn't make me want to play many 2v2s as the ostheer.


Let me guess, something with early sniper into clowncar guard in combination with early shocks?
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.

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slother
13 Jan 2014, 19:29 PM
#296
avatar of slother

Posts: 145

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2014, 18:58 PMelchino7


Let me guess, something with early sniper into clowncar guard in combination with early shocks?


Dont forget maxims, and no tech t34-85 callin from Guard player, and IS2/kv8 from shock player :) + Napalm strike on your pak gun (his shreck pgrens probably got 1 shooted by is2 anyway) if ostheer didnt concede yet - IL-2 to close the deal.

The joy of playing ostheer this patch :)
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Rudo
13 Jan 2014, 23:47 PM
#297
avatar of Rudo

Posts: 17

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2014, 19:29 PMslother


Dont forget maxims, and no tech t34-85 callin from Guard player, and IS2/kv8 from shock player :) + Napalm strike on your pak gun (his shreck pgrens probably got 1 shooted by is2 anyway) if ostheer didnt concede yet - IL-2 to close the deal.

The joy of playing ostheer this patch :)


MVGame
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GustavGans
14 Jan 2014, 09:36 AM
#298
avatar of GustavGans

Posts: 747

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2014, 19:29 PMslother


Dont forget maxims, and no tech t34-85 callin from Guard player, and IS2/kv8 from shock player :) + Napalm strike on your pak gun (his shreck pgrens probably got 1 shooted by is2 anyway) if ostheer didnt concede yet - IL-2 to close the deal.

The joy of playing ostheer this patch :)


The no tech path is extremely viable when playing soviets now, thanks to the early elite Infantry you can apply enormous pressure right from the start and have your call-ins out before there is anything around that could harm them.

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__deleted__
15 Jan 2014, 06:23 AM
#299
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 236

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2014, 18:58 PMelchino7


Let me guess, something with early sniper into clowncar guard in combination with early shocks?


That right there has made me stop playing for the time being. I hope the next patch adds some light to the game because I miss playing :(
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Aerohank
15 Jan 2014, 19:44 PM
#300
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2014, 19:29 PMslother


Dont forget maxims, and no tech t34-85 callin from Guard player, and IS2/kv8 from shock player :) + Napalm strike on your pak gun (his shreck pgrens probably got 1 shooted by is2 anyway) if ostheer didnt concede yet - IL-2 to close the deal.

The joy of playing ostheer this patch :)


You can't have all those things in 2v2.
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