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russian armor

Shocktroops at 1CP

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6 Jan 2014, 22:53 PM
#241
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439

The more I play against early shocks the less if an issue I have. You just got to figure out how to counter them, getting a sniper and keeping it alive is the best strat. I have been using this build every game lately and it has done wonders; 1 gren 1 mg (go to fuel and hold or harass a little with gren) then sniper. The sniper really scares soviet players and forces them to make a decision they probably don't want to make. They either got to forget about going shocks and get that sniper off the field or go shocks and bite the bullet. Either way getting an early supported sniper puts the OH player in the drivers seat a bit and forces a reaction from soviet.


+1
7 Jan 2014, 07:43 AM
#242
avatar of General TheoDErich

Posts: 20

The more I play against early shocks the less if an issue I have. You just got to figure out how to counter them, getting a sniper and keeping it alive is the best strat. I have been using this build every game lately and it has done wonders; 1 gren 1 mg (go to fuel and hold or harass a little with gren) then sniper. The sniper really scares soviet players and forces them to make a decision they probably don't want to make. They either got to forget about going shocks and get that sniper off the field or go shocks and bite the bullet. Either way getting an early supported sniper puts the OH player in the drivers seat a bit and forces a reaction from soviet.


MG, Gren and Sniper does mean 4 Cons on the field at the same time. One attack with only 3 of them forces of your mg because 1 gren cant stop them and sniper might shoot maximum 3 times before he has to retreat as well. Do not really see how thats going to help, unless you play really passive and hand most of the map without a fight to the soviet. Sniper is great against shocks, but only with a solid frontline he can hide behind so he can take shots as he pleases. he is not the stopping power himself!
7 Jan 2014, 08:15 AM
#243
avatar of link0

Posts: 337



MG, Gren and Sniper does mean 4 Cons on the field at the same time. One attack with only 3 of them forces of your mg because 1 gren cant stop them and sniper might shoot maximum 3 times before he has to retreat as well. Do not really see how thats going to help, unless you play really passive and hand most of the map without a fight to the soviet. Sniper is great against shocks, but only with a solid frontline he can hide behind so he can take shots as he pleases. he is not the stopping power himself!


Don't retreat your sniper. You can run between shots to keep your distance.
7 Jan 2014, 08:47 AM
#244
avatar of GustavGans

Posts: 747

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Jan 2014, 08:15 AMlink0


Don't retreat your sniper. You can run between shots to keep your distance.


Keeping the sniper alive is key to survive early shocks, unfortunately that's easier said than done sometimes, at least for me. It's buggy behavior combined with the RNG gamble caused by it's armor value, make it really hard for me to estimate when to just move and when to retreat.

In 2v2 it's a whole different matter, the combination of shocks t2 with guards t1 make it extremly difficult for the Ostheer to compete.
7 Jan 2014, 08:58 AM
#245
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2779

1CP Guards is a bigger issue

Sniper spam with 1CP Guards are just retarded.
10x more retarded in 2v2
7 Jan 2014, 09:19 AM
#246
avatar of Le Wish
Patrion 14

Posts: 813 | Subs: 1

The few 1v1s I have played, I can make it work, but in 2v2s (most players play teamgames...) the guard shock combo is quite nasty to deal with. Not saying its impossible, but it is an uphill struggle if they play very aggressive.
7 Jan 2014, 09:40 AM
#247
avatar of General TheoDErich

Posts: 20

The few 1v1s I have played, I can make it work, but in 2v2s (most players play teamgames...) the guard shock combo is quite nasty to deal with. Not saying its impossible, but it is an uphill struggle if they play very aggressive.


Thats true, even more, when you are not expecting this strategy and both players go for a normal gren start... then they just poke away with their 2/3 snipers, forcing you to retreat all the time. Scoutcars are no counter because of the guards. Best way to counter might be a sniper of your own, but if you just blindly build a sniper in the beginning and russians use normal conscript-start your not well off either ... (in 2v2s that is)
and the shocks just mow down the rest

any better ideas than to counter this with your own sniper/ snipers?
7 Jan 2014, 09:47 AM
#248
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 1003



Thats true, even more, when you are not expecting this strategy and both players go for a normal gren start... then they just poke away with their 2/3 snipers, forcing you to retreat all the time. Scoutcars are no counter because of the guards. Best way to counter might be a sniper of your own, but if you just blindly build a sniper in the beginning and russians use normal conscript-start your not well off either ... (in 2v2s that is)
and the shocks just mow down the rest

any better ideas than to counter this with your own sniper/ snipers?


Good sniper counter is grenadiers riflegrenade and mortar. If soviet have T1 = no maxim, no mortars, no ZiS.
7 Jan 2014, 09:51 AM
#249
avatar of General TheoDErich

Posts: 20

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Jan 2014, 09:47 AMAradan


Good sniper counter is grenadiers riflegrenade and mortar. If soviet have T1 = no maxim, no mortars, no ZiS.


but if soviet player only has 3 snipers to manage, you will have no success with riflegrenade, hes blobbing them and just has to babysitt them. dont see this working.
7 Jan 2014, 10:24 AM
#250
avatar of Le Wish
Patrion 14

Posts: 813 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Jan 2014, 09:47 AMAradan


Good sniper counter is grenadiers riflegrenade and mortar. If soviet have T1 = no maxim, no mortars, no ZiS.


We are still speaking teamgames. One goes t1 the other t2, so the problem is still there.
7 Jan 2014, 11:03 AM
#251
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 1003



We are still speaking teamgames. One goes t1 the other t2, so the problem is still there.


The same problem is on soviet side, if Ost have two snipers and play well. Then we outcap opponents and tech fast for tanks.
I missing natural counters jeep and motorbike. Gold CoH1.
7 Jan 2014, 11:15 AM
#252
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2779



We are still speaking teamgames. One goes t1 the other t2, so the problem is still there.


Good luck playing with 3 sniperblob with Guards

it is even faster than fastest SC opening
7 Jan 2014, 11:18 AM
#253
avatar of Darkripper

Posts: 58

http://www.coh2.org/replays/12746/spam-of-st-and-t2-units-in-his-maximun-expression

i know.. must be easy counter this.. but we played 2 times on lazur factory against those guys and this strat work perfectly.. they won us 2 times u.u (feel like a noob)

but in this match we played again and gg.. but credit for them.. good abuse of this :D
7 Jan 2014, 11:58 AM
#254
avatar of SturmTigerTrafalgar

Posts: 160


No, but one Pgren and Gren can, if you let the grens buffert the damage.


2 pgrens Can kill 1 Shock dude. Without nades.
7 Jan 2014, 14:03 PM
#255
avatar of James Hale

Posts: 574

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Jan 2014, 11:03 AMAradan
I missing natural counters jeep and motorbike. Gold CoH1.

Like T1 Scout Car?
7 Jan 2014, 14:51 PM
#256
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 1003


Like T1 Scout Car?


If only cost manpower. 20 fuel is not good deal for suicide mission.

In CoH1 have booth side sniper counter for 180 and 220 manpower, motorbike and jeep. Veterans know.
7 Jan 2014, 15:16 PM
#257
avatar of Tristan44

Posts: 915

AH.. I am strictly speaking for 1v1. Don't have much experience with team games, I guess I can see it being a problem..

However for the guy who mentioned by the time you have a gren, mg, and sniper sov has 4 cons. That's still not that big of an issue. The mg can suppress 2 cons, the gren can engage the other 2 with the sniper far back in support. Sure let the sov player OOOraah where he thinks the sniper will be, just micro. He will be hurting from the 3-4 shots the sniper will get on those squads..

Biggest issue is keeping a sniper alive. I have never kept a sniper alive for a whole game, especially German ones. Its just to hard with all the soviets splash damage and RNG that always seems to favor them (my experience only). They need to be babysat all game and I guess my micro just isn't up to snuff. There is one game I lost vs NorthWestFresh where I kept my sniper alive for the majority of the game and he racked up 70 kills. A random gunshot salvo got him...:/ After he had survived countless.
7 Jan 2014, 15:36 PM
#258
avatar of Rhaegal

Posts: 21

The more I play against early shocks the less if an issue I have


completely agree we just needed to get used to the meta in fact shocks aren't being spammed like before(at least in my 10 last games),though i think that is somehow wrong that elite troops are available at such an early stage of the game, guards are actually really an issue on 1cp, i mean there is a counter to everything in the game but i'm pretty sure that if a doctrine made pgrens availble at 1cp a lot of soviets would rage and whine in some post in here
7 Jan 2014, 15:44 PM
#259
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 1003



completely agree we just needed to get used to the meta in fact shocks aren't being spammed like before(at least in my 10 last games),though i think that is somehow wrong that elite troops are available at such an early stage of the game, guards are actually really an issue on 1cp, i mean there is a counter to everything in the game but i'm pretty sure that if a doctrine made pgrens availble at 1cp a lot of soviets would rage and whine in some post in here


You can skip T1 and have Pzg very early. Problem is with ST and Pzg. They are too strong and rape conscripts and greens like no tomorow. Shocks and Pzg with assault rifles are T4 units and is fault from Relic give them early.
7 Jan 2014, 16:04 PM
#260
avatar of Rhaegal

Posts: 21

still not the same as having them without the need of teching no?, and surely st and pzg are not to be relegated in t4
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