Tbh, its pretty intuitive that a moving vehicle would have less accuracy, than a stationary one.
But yeah, I agee, more tooltips overall would not be a bad thing.
It's not intuitive for the yolo swag cod black ops generation
T-34-76 after patch
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14 Dec 2013, 12:42 PM
#41
Posts: 747
It's not intuitive for the yolo swag cod black ops generation
14 Dec 2013, 14:22 PM
#42
Posts: 168
I would post my opinion but it's of no use as it will soon be proved wrong
14 Dec 2013, 19:56 PM
#43
Posts: 93
It's not intuitive for the yolo swag cod black ops generation
+1
14 Dec 2013, 22:07 PM
#44
Posts: 928
If anything, i'd like to see a penn increase in the T-34-76 so that it can penn the Pz 4 8/10 times.
Reason: I don't think a non-doctrinal medium tank that can't fight tanks at all is good at the game. Like, it's alright for the Pz 4 to outdamage the T-34-76 but for the T-34-76 to not penn the Pz 4 frontally or do no damage to it even 6/10 times just seems wrong gameplay wise and historically.
I mean, the unupgunned sherman could still penn the Pz 4 frontally in VCOH most of the time. Why can't this be done in COH2?
Reason: I don't think a non-doctrinal medium tank that can't fight tanks at all is good at the game. Like, it's alright for the Pz 4 to outdamage the T-34-76 but for the T-34-76 to not penn the Pz 4 frontally or do no damage to it even 6/10 times just seems wrong gameplay wise and historically.
I mean, the unupgunned sherman could still penn the Pz 4 frontally in VCOH most of the time. Why can't this be done in COH2?
Had fun doing this earlier
14 Dec 2013, 23:12 PM
#45
Posts: 2487 | Subs: 21
If anything, i'd like to see a penn increase in the T-34-76 so that it can penn the Pz 4 8/10 times.
Reason: I don't think a non-doctrinal medium tank that can't fight tanks at all is good at the game. Like, it's alright for the Pz 4 to outdamage the T-34-76 but for the T-34-76 to not penn the Pz 4 frontally or do no damage to it even 6/10 times just seems wrong gameplay wise and historically.
I mean, the unupgunned sherman could still penn the Pz 4 frontally in VCOH most of the time. Why can't this be done in COH2?
+1
15 Dec 2013, 00:55 AM
#46
Posts: 589
If anything, i'd like to see a penn increase in the T-34-76 so that it can penn the Pz 4 8/10 times.
Reason: I don't think a non-doctrinal medium tank that can't fight tanks at all is good at the game. Like, it's alright for the Pz 4 to outdamage the T-34-76 but for the T-34-76 to not penn the Pz 4 frontally or do no damage to it even 6/10 times just seems wrong gameplay wise and historically.
I mean, the unupgunned sherman could still penn the Pz 4 frontally in VCOH most of the time. Why can't this be done in COH2?
sure, with a soviet industry nerf.. imagine sov. industry with t34/76 spam dominating p4's.. ugh
15 Dec 2013, 01:02 AM
#47
Posts: 971
T34 should have more penetration, yes, but I think that will make OP abilities like Mark Target, and Soviet Industry would be a hell of commander to beat.
Better to leave the things as they are. You would need two T34 to beat a PzIV anyway.
Better to leave the things as they are. You would need two T34 to beat a PzIV anyway.
15 Dec 2013, 11:18 AM
#48
Posts: 1130
If anything, i'd like to see a penn increase in the T-34-76 so that it can penn the Pz 4 8/10 times.
Reason: I don't think a non-doctrinal medium tank that can't fight tanks at all is good at the game. Like, it's alright for the Pz 4 to outdamage the T-34-76 but for the T-34-76 to not penn the Pz 4 frontally or do no damage to it even 6/10 times just seems wrong gameplay wise and historically.
I mean, the unupgunned sherman could still penn the Pz 4 frontally in VCOH most of the time. Why can't this be done in COH2?
Its not done because the sherman in VCOH was more expensive then the p4. you suggest that a tank which is cheaper then the p4 should have a very good chance at winning which is of course is pretty messed up balance idea.
Historically its also correct. the p4 at this stage was equipped with 80 mm frontal armor and a gun that could destroy the t-34/76 at any combat range while the t-34 could only kill the p4 at point blank range.
horrida flamma bella
15 Dec 2013, 11:48 AM
#49
Posts: 978
If anything, i'd like to see a penn increase in the T-34-76 so that it can penn the Pz 4 8/10 times.
Reason: I don't think a non-doctrinal medium tank that can't fight tanks at all is good at the game. Like, it's alright for the Pz 4 to outdamage the T-34-76 but for the T-34-76 to not penn the Pz 4 frontally or do no damage to it even 6/10 times just seems wrong gameplay wise and historically.
I strongly disagree. The T-34/76 has been buffed already. It can reliably take on StuGs and Panzer IVs frontally atm. It won´t win, but two will do.
1) If the T-34/76 could penetrate the 80mm frontal armor of StuG and Panzer IV like 80% of the time - what would be the reason to keep the frontal armor of those vehicles at the enemy? A 20% chance of deflection, hardly worth the effort.
2) The T-34/76 costs 30 fuel less than a Panzer IV. It should be weaker.
3) Historically, Jaigen hit it on the spot. The T-34/76 was horribly outclassed by the Panzer IV H and the StuG G in 1944. Because of the upgun on almost all German tanks even before that (StuG F and Panzer IV F2) the Russians lost so many tanks in 1942/1943. Thus the T-34/85 was intoduced.
The real T-34/76 was infact weaker than the thing we have ingame that penetrates the front of StuGs/ Panzer IV every now and then.
4) I agree however that Russians still lack a decent generalist tank. Hence I would still be glad if the T-34/85 was non doctrinal. -.-
15 Dec 2013, 13:18 PM
#50
Posts: 93
Hence the question, what is the role of Soviet T3? It's meh against tanks and meh against infantry unless an insane amount of micro is applied
15 Dec 2013, 13:19 PM
#51
Posts: 93
EDIT Double post
15 Dec 2013, 14:07 PM
#52
Posts: 971
Hence the question, what is the role of Soviet T3? It's meh against tanks and meh against infantry unless an insane amount of micro is applied
Cheap tanks that can be spammed easily and can cap points too. Useful against everything except heavy armor.
And in T34's case, even against heavy armor it gives you the option to trade tanks with a succesful ram.
15 Dec 2013, 17:09 PM
#53
Posts: 950 | Subs: 1
Hence the question, what is the role of Soviet T3? It's meh against tanks and meh against infantry unless an insane amount of micro is applied
insane amount of micro? its really not that hard. just dont try to attack enemy armor head on as if you were a german tank. its not meh against anything. its very effective against everything for its price. not sure what you expect from the cheapest tanks in the game. combine t3 with t2 for zis and you can take on any tank
15 Dec 2013, 17:21 PM
#54
Posts: 1003
I think he was only asking for feed-back on the unit post-patch and if people changed the way they use it.
True and thank for advices.
I want to have the same chance, to win for each side.
15 Dec 2013, 20:11 PM
#55
Posts: 307
Historically its also correct. the p4 at this stage was equipped with 80 mm frontal armor and a gun that could destroy the t-34/76 at any combat range while the t-34 could only kill the p4 at point blank range. [/quot
Where did you take that? Totally wrong.
Vae Victis!
15 Dec 2013, 20:24 PM
#56
Posts: 307
I've heard so many times on this forum that pVI could easily beat T-34. You guys are so wrong!
Germans were totally shocked when T-34 was first introduced on the battlefield in June 1941. The only reason red army has lost tank battles in 1941 was extremely poor and disorganized supply chain - tanks running out of fuel and ammo, etc
Prove if I'm wrong.
Scroll to the bottom of: http://www.achtungpanzer.com/t34.htm
Germans were totally shocked when T-34 was first introduced on the battlefield in June 1941. The only reason red army has lost tank battles in 1941 was extremely poor and disorganized supply chain - tanks running out of fuel and ammo, etc
Prove if I'm wrong.
Scroll to the bottom of: http://www.achtungpanzer.com/t34.htm
Vae Victis!
15 Dec 2013, 21:02 PM
#57
Posts: 978
I've heard so many times on this forum that pVI could easily beat T-34. You guys are so wrong!Another one having seen the stupid documentary by the History channel? The T-34 was excellent when it caught the German Panzer IIIs and Panzer IVs off guard - in 1941. Mind you: The tanks they faced were a lot of Panzer IIIs that were armed with 37mm guns at the beginning, then the short 50mm, later longer 50mm. The Panzer IV at that time was infantry support and had only a 75mm/L24. You might know that tank - ingame it´s the Command Panzer IV. But still the most common tank of Germany at that time was the Panzer II, which was rather a tankette than an actual tank.
Germans were totally shocked when T-34 was first introduced on the battlefield in June 1941. The only reason red army has lost tank battles in 1941 was extremely poor and disorganized supply chain - tanks running out of fuel and ammo, etc
Prove if I'm wrong.
Scroll to the bottom of: http://www.achtungpanzer.com/t34.htm
This game however is set in 1944. By that time the T-34/76 was totally outclassed. Germans began to equip Panzer IVs and StuGs with the 75mm/L48 (the long barrel you see ingame) standard almost two years before. This allowed them to take out T-34s on long range. Also the front armor of those two vehicles was increased to 80mm. - Impervious to the 76mm of the T-34 beyond about 400m.
The Panzer IV of 1941 was a very different tank to the Panzer IV of 1944. People seem to forget this.
By 1942 the advantage of the T-34s armor was negated and mostly the numbers produced and the ease to maintain it kept it a good tank.
Thus Soviets faced incredibly high tank losses in 1942/1943.
Conclusion: The Panzer IV/ StuGs could take out the T-34/76 at about twice the range at the time the game is set.
15 Dec 2013, 21:38 PM
#58
Posts: 1130
I've heard so many times on this forum that pVI could easily beat T-34. You guys are so wrong!
Germans were totally shocked when T-34 was first introduced on the battlefield in June 1941. The only reason red army has lost tank battles in 1941 was extremely poor and disorganized supply chain - tanks running out of fuel and ammo, etc
Prove if I'm wrong.
Scroll to the bottom of: http://www.achtungpanzer.com/t34.htm
the p4 in 1941 was a very different compared to the p4 in 1944. Its a bit of a myth that the t-34 where only destroyed because of the poor use of the t-34 because the t-34 had rather crippling weaknesses when it comes to ergonomics and optics. the result was that in tank battles 1941 the majority of t-34 kills was actually done by the p3 with the long 50 mm gun that exploited the weaknesses of the t-34.
In my opinion the t-34 was in general a piece of shit and was a war losing tank. if Hitler was only slightly smarter and and for example converted the entire German economy to a war economy in 1937 the soviets would would not be able to suffer such casualties as they had without losing the war.
horrida flamma bella
15 Dec 2013, 21:48 PM
#59
Posts: 604
You guys really need to stop trying to discuss game balance based on "realism" or based on historical sources (often biased, selection and truth finding not always that easy).
Furthermore, you need to remember there are many different variants/versions of the tanks. A Panzer 4 H is very different from a Panzer 4 E. There are also plenty T-34 variants that are not as easy to distinguish as just looking at the gun caliber designation.
Game balance should be discussed on the game's stats and design. Of course the design of the units is influenced by history but this game is far from historically accurate and therefore demanding that single units perform "historically accurate" doesn't make any real sense without changing everything else as well. (Check out MoW instead).
From the game balance, the T-34 fills its role extremely well. It also performs very well for its cost. It is a medium tank, good against Infantry, still good against vehicles but of course not dominating vs. more expensive medium and heavy tanks.
I think it is one of the most cost efficient units in the game, so be careful what you ask for. Asking for changes to it may very well result in cost changes, making the unit again "undesirable" by people.
Furthermore, you need to remember there are many different variants/versions of the tanks. A Panzer 4 H is very different from a Panzer 4 E. There are also plenty T-34 variants that are not as easy to distinguish as just looking at the gun caliber designation.
Game balance should be discussed on the game's stats and design. Of course the design of the units is influenced by history but this game is far from historically accurate and therefore demanding that single units perform "historically accurate" doesn't make any real sense without changing everything else as well. (Check out MoW instead).
From the game balance, the T-34 fills its role extremely well. It also performs very well for its cost. It is a medium tank, good against Infantry, still good against vehicles but of course not dominating vs. more expensive medium and heavy tanks.
I think it is one of the most cost efficient units in the game, so be careful what you ask for. Asking for changes to it may very well result in cost changes, making the unit again "undesirable" by people.
16 Dec 2013, 01:18 AM
#60
Posts: 307
What are you talking about? P III's shells were splitting in half against T34 armor.
And if we talk about 1944 period Red Army was widely using T34-85
Anyway, this topic is about T34 in game. Here is my opinion. It was bad before patch now it's even worse.
Both t34 and p4 have to be the same in price and performance so the result of tank battles would rely on players skills.
And if we talk about 1944 period Red Army was widely using T34-85
Anyway, this topic is about T34 in game. Here is my opinion. It was bad before patch now it's even worse.
Both t34 and p4 have to be the same in price and performance so the result of tank battles would rely on players skills.
Vae Victis!
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