German Light Vehicles in Current Meta

Vanilla Guard beat vanilla Grens, even without Nade.

That is irrelevant since you won't be fighting with vanilla guards vs vanilla grens all game. There will be a limited amount of such engagements, and even if the grens will loose 1v1, they will also inflicted enough damage to force a retreat or guarantee the guards won't survive the next engagement.

You seem to be trying to deliberately understate their use.

That's not my intention at all. Just trying to point out there are other soft AT counters that can be used in order not to be forced to select a guards commander, thus allowing you to call in shocks (which are more effective overall) or use another doctrine that doesn't rely on infantry call-ins as a soft AT counter.

The german hafltrack is fine imo. You can either use it to reinforce or as a shock unit (fht) that forces at nades (they cost almost the same as the ht) and guards or a zis gun.

The scout car stands and falls with the wehrmacht players micro. Only one at nade/oorah combination can kill it if the conscripts survive long enough to kill it with their rifles. However it CAN do enourmous damage if the wehr playre has good micro.

Too unreliable against heavy armor.

If I have to ram or throw arty over an elefant or Tiger Ace, I prefer them being buttoned than risk to throw the RNG dices with AT nades.

Fair enough. However button is temporary while AT nades have a more lasting effect.

Its hard to compare Guards directly with Grens too much, seen as they are doctrinal and +50% the price.

Yeah they have more men, better armour and some AT. But your paying for it.

And its not like Grens dont have faust.

In real game situation, guards will often face 2 grens, which may very well have g43 or LMG.

That is irrelevant since you won't be fighting with vanilla guards vs vanilla grens all game. There will be a limited amount of such engagements, and even if the grens will loose 1v1, they will also inflicted enough damage to force a retreat or guarantee the guards won't survive the next engagement.

Its not irrelevant at all. At 60 Munis additional cost, it takes significant time and specific investment to accumalate LMGs or, more rarely, G43s on Grens. Amd that means no RNades, no Flamers on Pio, no FHT, no upgunned 222, and especially no mines. Also impairs getting Med Bunker. The limitation on the number of those engagements is abritrary and depends where you deploy your units as opposed to your opponents. Can swing either way, and depends on your macro.

Obviously against a well positioned LMG Gren that you cant force to reposition, you will loose. But there are optiins, such as moving in while soaking with the 2 additional armor 1.5 models, and Nading it to, at worst, a reposition and desetup of the LMG for net benefit, and at best, significsnt model losses if he doesnt move in time.

Due to Guard having not only equal DPS to Grens, but also equal armor, AND 2 additional models, you will be left with a signficant model count left on Guard after forcing the Gren off. This being especially due to how dmg decreeases the less models that are left in a unit. A Guard unit fights a Gren unit, almost as if they where 6 Grens themselves.
So its like 6 Grens vs 4 Grens. Winner is obvious.

This can then also be indirectly sustained somewhat by Merging Cons into it, for less cost but admittedly less armor.

That's not my intention at all. Just trying to point out there are other soft AT counters that can be used in order not to be forced to select a guards commander, thus allowing you to call in shocks (which are more effective overall) or use another doctrine that doesn't rely on infantry call-ins as a soft AT counter.

Yee, you are right. Its not like Sov "needs" Guard for soft AT. But it also doesnt need anything else vs Light Vehicles anyways if he xhooses them.

They really are extremely versatile and multi purpose, as well as cheap.
You get the better equivalent of Grens in DPS, 1.5 armor, 6 models, light AT, Nade, and DP option for later game both AI and AT functionality. But it gets better than that. Since they are callins, there is no build time. Since they are no longer attached to a building like they used to be at T1, here is no tech cost. Since they are now CP1, they sre delpoyable extremely early.

The timing needed a change. The problem with FHT was that it used to have a period of free reign. I personally think they could use a damage (or critical) and cost nerf but that's just me - not 100% positive if that would be a good change or not.

My problem with it was during that free reign period it used to have it could get squad wipes too easily by chasing down retreating units. It's one thing to have a unit positioned well to cut off a retreating unit but entirely another to chase it across the map picking off troops. I think guards coming out earlier at least allows soviets to threaten a chasing FHT.

Note: I'm talking from the soviet T1 point of view

FHT costs 120 Muni. Thats 4.8 ATNades.

Its enough to disable the FHT, in terms of early rushes.
I know and understand that everyone wants to destroy it firsthand, but really, that is unreasonable expectation.

To prevent retreat kills, as you mentioned, a sinfle ATnade is enough, but also, extremly important. You absolutely need to disable the mobility of FHTs at every chance you get. Fortunately, thats quite cheap in comparison, but ofc, its not a kill. Preventing its mobility is enough though for the time being, so it doesnt run rampant on retreaters and cant redeploy immediately to another area of the map.

The Muni cost of a early FHT means there are no mines, noLMG/G43s, very few RNades and a delayed Medic Bunker.

Its enough to disable it and build then build vehicle counters.

However, its just as possible to gangbang it with massed Cons, or lure it into a Mine, which FHTs are often prone to overextend into because the Ost player is, understandably, so horny and desperate to try and leverage the window before AT as hard and fast as he can against the huge Muni investment.

Guards, at CP1, is ofc also an option, and will categorically force an FHT off that engagement. Add an ATNade to that mix, which isnt hard, and that FHT is dead frankly.

@Nullist, I remember you telling me yesterday that you'd stop talking to me from now on.

So stop quoting any post of mine in any thread. I don't give a shit about your balance suggestions or your ideas, as you do the same about mine.

Then, why you do even lose your precious time answering my posts?
Buy yourself a friend, dude. And leave me in peace, I don't have the patience to deal with trolls like you.

Fair enough. However button is temporary while AT nades have a more lasting effect.

Yeah, but as a mainly 2vs2 player, I usually do a T2 start and only use cons for merging and steal weapons.
Zis is my primary AT weapon and guards' button have a good synergy with them.
I only upgrade ATnades lategame or if I float in fuel.

Even so, I rarely do Guards. Only if I expect big tanks in the battlefield (Elefant, Tiger Ace, Panther spam).
Shock Troopers do a better job protecting my units.