"One-shot-wipe-potential"

You missed the point of my post. I said it was important to maintain the mechanic of how the match up between Soviets and Germans works, nothing more nothing less. So if you remove all one shot capable assets you have to compensate for that factor of chance with for example stronger cons for example that are able to cause a similar manpower bleed on the German player.

I see you point about the precision strike. Maybe I was just lucky that I didn't have to deal with it being spammed against me. I don't see why you'd have to get "pissed off" though .

I never commented on the Sturmovik

You also misinterpreted most of what I wrote. I was offering perspective, I wasn't attacking you or your argument. I do agree that osw and chance should be reduced, however I kindly wanted to draw your attention to the fact that you cannot simply remove it and expect the game to still work.

I didnt miss any point. I also stated that if removing the OSW's from the Soviets they could be buffed for damaged output. I'm totally fine with that.
I'm getting pissed off because I really like this game a lot, but I feel there are some things fundamentally wrong with it that need to be corrected to make it even better. We all know Relic reads along at CoH2.org, and posts like yours make it seem like OSWP isn't a problem at all, which it is.

I know you didn't commend on the Sturmovik. I used it as an example to show you the difference between RWA (which offers time to dodge it) and a true OSWP ability (like the Sturmovik) where it doesn't matter if u react or not: you still get killed.

Sorry for getting a little agitated by the way. It's just that I feel this is one of the most annoying things in CoH2 and it HAS to be removed asap. Getting entire full health squads wiped out without your fault is just REALLY annoying.

Btw Sherlock I'm still interested in seeing your playercard. I like to know if the person I debate with is merely theorycrafting, or does have the actual game experience.

We seem to be on the same page then. RNG and osw should be toned down in my view as well, but I wanted to make it clear that the work doesn't stop at removing it. You'll have to compensate for the "random damage".

We seem to be on the same page then. RNG and osw should be toned down in my view as well, but I wanted to make it clear that the work doesn't stop at removing it. You'll have to compensate for the "random damage".

Agreed, otherwise it would merely be a nerf.

just wanted to point out that having low hp squads or full hp squads hit a mine makes no difference. soviet mines always do 200 damage to any entity they hit, the only randomness is if they will hit units in the outer half of their radius. so low up squads is not a cause for getting one shotted by mines. as for bunching up, i dont know of any way to control their formation. avoid choke points is obviuos, but besides that i dont think theres anything you can do.

So i build a sniper to counter shock troops, good move, kite it behind main forces, move position after every shot, but then somehow the soviet mortar manages to predict where i move to and hit me dead centre on my head. Not just splash damage but dead centre.

A freak incident u may say, unlucky possibly but three times in one game?

Please tell me how i counter this?

Maybe this is the new mortar sniper we have heard about?

I don't think squad wipe is as punishing as it was back in vCoH. It's very easy to comeback in this game and while you loose some veterancy you can rebuild your squad with easy.
The only two units that are capable of squad wipes on regular basis are ISU-152 and Brumbar. Single shoot from these units usually means that all members are dead or there is lone survivor. I also disagree with the statement that Brumbar is useless, but that's different topic.
Other then that is pure rng and to be honest I kind of like this as it gives me this "war" feeling. It's brutal and it's never fair.
It would be false to say that only Soviets are able to perform OSWP. German mortar, rifle nade, bundle nades, artillery, call ins - all this can result in potential squad death. Sector artillery and light artillery barrage can even wipe out whole armies and quite often you're doomed even if you retreat.

As someone above said I think this is more of a perception thing than anything else.

I agree with the OP.

One thing though, while squad wipes to mines do happen I don't think I quite understand how the soviet mine hits are generated.
(Damage is irrelevant as it will always be higher than 80.)

It currently presents a 40% chance to survive even at the edge of its explosion: It is the perfect example of how (binary) randomness should not look.

Assume your full health squad triggers one mine. You lose 2 guys because they are near the center, fair and square.
But the other two are not bunched up with the others, they are further away (up to 5 m!). It doesn't just damage them or reliably kill one guy and cripple the other. It just boots up the RNG casino.

So according to rofltehcat at least one entity will die due to being in the near AoE and all other entities will die 60% of the time.
A full 4 men squad wipe would then happen unbelievable 21.6% of the time.

Math:
1 x 0.6 x 0.6 x 0.6 = 0.216 -> 21.6% - triggering entity is dead (1 -> 100%) the rest die(0.6 -> 60%) of the time.

I think I must have misunderstood how mines work because if this is true the only thing keeping the soviet mine form being THE best anti infantry weapon in the game is that one guy lagging behind the others.
Yeah, the one that makes squads stop even on open fields till he catches up...

You oversimplified it but basically, yes.

Explosions have a near radius (1.5 for the mine), a far radius (2.5) and a ... radius? radius... let's call that one max radius (5.0).
Inside the near radius, they have a very high accuracy (5.0) and deal full damage (1.0 multiplier). Then between the near and far radius, the accuracy and damage multipliers decrease linearly down to the far value multipliers (0.6 accuracy, 1.0 damage, so for mines only accuracy decay, no damage decay). Between the far radius and max radius the multipliers are once more static at the far values.

So some of the other entities will have a higher chance to die than in your example (short unreliable calculation: everything inside ~2.4 still has 100% chance). The only ones save are the ones more than 5 m (yards? feet?) from the explosion's center.
Squad formations are really important for this. But the missing damage multiplier decay on mines increases the squad wipe chance by a lot. Other explosions normally have a 0.25 damage multiplier at far range. With that, the odds of survival would be a lot better, even with the mine's high base damage.


I understand why the mines have this behaviour: In the beta mines were kind of unreliable (could "miss" or not deal full damage) and the damage multiplier "fixes" that problem. It is a good band aid to fix those vehicle-related problems but it leads to horrible maiming of infantry.

Other mines normally have a 0.25 damage multiplier at far range. With that, the odds of survival would be a lot better, even with the mine's high base damage.

i think you mean other AOEs, because every mine ive checked has no damage drop off. the german AI mines are awful though, and the AT mines arent a problem.

Thank you for the explanation and thanks for taking the time.

So basically there a three AoE ranges the accuracy between range one a two decreases linearly the other two are fixed values - got it.
So my numbers are inaccurate as the mine is actually deadlier for infantry ...

Jesus! - The soviet mine needs a satchel charge or howitzer shell animation upon detonation if it's that deadly!

i think you mean other AOEs, because every mine ive checked has no damage drop off. the german AI mines are awful though, and the AT mines arent a problem.

yes, my bad. I meant explosions.
Edited, thanks ^^

Jesus! - The soviet mine needs a satchel charge or howitzer shell animation upon detonation if it's that deadly!

Ex-act-ly!

Panzerwerfer One-shot-wipe my full Shock troops squad with first rocket. Three times in one game. Write it to your black list.

You know, I went back to coh1 this weekend, and after a few decent 1v1s I suffered a nice RNG attack full of OSW's and cheesy play in 2v2, then I hear about how COH1 is the superior race.

I used to be in that bandcamp, no longer....I lost a pio squad to this first shot from a us mortar while capping, lost 2 gren squads on retreat to a bren in bren, then the old fav, I lost two more full gren squads to 1sec arty while I noticed a bit of coh2's notorious "input lag" everyone forgets coh1 has, and for the lulz the US player started his build with 6 jeeps and harassed everything then got raid, and even killed my mates PE ACs with them while he backteched to wsc and made 5 snipers, and this wasn't some tard game, this was with 4 high level players, com'on...

I now respect coh2 even more. MVGame

So i build a sniper to counter shock troops, good move, kite it behind main forces, move position after every shot, but then somehow the soviet mortar manages to predict where i move to and hit me dead centre on my head. Not just splash damage but dead centre.

A freak incident u may say, unlucky possibly but three times in one game?

Please tell me how i counter this?

Ze pzkfw Armored Unbrella cap for snipers

Panzerwerfer One-shot-wipe my full Shock troops squad with first rocket. Three times in one game. Write it to your black list.

1. We all know you play only Soviets.
2. You know that "weeee weeee weee"-sound u hear before u lose your shocksquad? Thats an indictation you should move away. It's called "reaction time" mon ami.

1. We all know you play only Soviets.
2. You know that "weeee weeee weee"-sound u hear before u lose your shocksquad? Thats an indictation you should move away. It's called "reaction time" mon ami.

Brilliant Just Brilliant

1. We all know you play only Soviets.
2. You know that "weeee weeee weee"-sound u hear before u lose your shocksquad? Thats an indictation you should move away. It's called "reaction time" mon ami.

WP. Theres a reason why Artillery is not mentioned on the first post.

I could "easily" counter saying the same happens with the Katys.
PD: they can also use Precision strike if you need to get rid of something.

1. We all know you play only Soviets.

1. Dont true. My team want play Soviets. I play OST if i have time.

This is answer for all? You are arrogant.