Soviet Industry needs to be nerfed.

Next patch will be a German commander that can call in Shrek squads for free.

Don't worry, though, the Soviets will get those free T34-85s we've been hearing so much about.

TBH Elite doctrine is broken also... Not only the industry. Playing vs spammed vet2 pzIV is just a struggle in 2v2 matches...

Elite doctrine is OP, but not nearly as broken as Soviet Industry. You have to be a moron to not win 100% of your games with Soviet Industry.

Elite doctrine is OP, but not nearly as broken as Soviet Industry. You have to be a moron to not win 100% of your games with Soviet Industry.

I've ran into a few... If you see the Windustry bulletin while loading in, you have to start your entire strategy with the assumption that, that player is going to use it. Then your chance is still only the incompetence of that player.

It's like a survival match in where you're only really seeing how many zombie tanks you can kill before you're overcome.

For 1v1s, check out stephennJF. He plays really well against soviet industry, also from what I can see, doesnt risk countering it too soon.

Soviet industry is powerful but can be beaten. You really feel mp drain while playing if you start to lose models even worse squads. Even if you can replace tanks fast, replacing still eats manpower.

Noteworthy, just because you see the sov. industry in the loadout doesnt mean they go for that doctrine. I played 2v2 yesterday where my teammate brought it (I didnt, no point in bringin duplicates). We faced the same opponents on the same map twice. First my friend went for sov industry but they played well and eventually wore us down after 45 mins or so. For the rematch, he didnt go for industry but had the commander still in his loadout. Our opponents must have thought we would go for the same thing again. Because we started seeing paks, upschrecked pgrens etc that have nothing but infantry to shoot at is quite fun as well. That game we won by a big margin 30 min in. Going proactive can be equally dangerous.

Just sayin. As I said earlier check out StephennJF. I am very impressed how he counters sov industry.

For 1v1s, check out stephennJF. He plays really well against soviet industry, also from what I can see, doesnt risk countering it too soon.

Soviet industry is powerful but can be beaten. You really feel mp drain while playing if you start to lose models even worse squads. Even if you can replace tanks fast, replacing still eats manpower.

Noteworthy, just because you see the sov. industry in the loadout doesnt mean they go for that doctrine. I played 2v2 yesterday where my teammate brought it (I didnt, no point in bringin duplicates). We faced the same opponents on the same map twice. First my friend went for sov industry but they played well and eventually wore us down after 45 mins or so. For the rematch, he didnt go for industry but had the commander still in his loadout. Our opponents must have thought we would go for the same thing again. Because we started seeing paks, upschrecked pgrens etc that have nothing but infantry to shoot at is quite fun as well. That game we won by a big margin 30 min in. Going proactive can be equally dangerous.

Just sayin. As I said earlier check out StephennJF. I am very impressed how he counters sov industry.

StephennJF has been playing against noobs who do not know how to exploit the advantages of Soviet Industry.

Even if you control 3/4 of the map, the Soviet industry player still has a very high fuel income. The problem is that you can only hope to have T2 up when his T70 rolls out. Your only defense is a halftrack with Shrek + Pak nearby, which can only defend a small portion of the map. He will have multiple T70s roaming the map where your AT is not and also one parked in your base.

StephennJF has been playing against noobs who do not know how to exploit the advantages of Soviet Industry.

Quite possible, but Stephenn is high up the ladder compared to alot of other players. I think the term noob is quite misleading here. If you are up top 100 are you still a noob? I think this is horribly elitist really. I would argue noob players are much further down the ladder. And if they can exploit the advantages of soviet industry, they would move up the ladder eventually facing better players like you or Stephenn, no?

Also, Im trying to give suggestions on how to tackle the commander. However, since I dont play 1v1s, I have to point towards another player I have seen do it well. Also, since you can watch and he is very helpfull in his stream, you usually get alot of god tips to bring to the next game you play. Since most of the players are not in the top 50-100 segment, I really think his comments could actually help alot of players, noobs or not.

Lastly, Im not saying that it shouldnt be nerfed, I think it should. Raising CP requirement for soviet industry ability up a commandpoint or so. Just trying to provide input to tackle the commander until(?) its nerfed.

Le Wish not to rain on your parade but you already stated it perfectly before. Because your opponents had to plan to protect against industry (though you did not use it) you won handily. That is unacceptable. A team, and I want to underscore that, a full team had to play to beat a single commander which you had the choice of not even using.

Even when they did manage to beat you they were expecting it and it took a long time. The commander is terribly broken and effectively uncounterable.

21 days and still no fix

Well, yesterday I bought Rome II in Steam's autumn sales, so CoH2 can rest in peace now.

It's too sad this game have left me that bitter feeling, as I really loved vCoH.
But breaking the balance to sell DLC's and then delay a fix nearly a month is just too much. Relic has made me an unhappy customer, and that will be the last game I bought from them.

I will reinstall the game next year though, but probably it won't have players anymore.

Le Wish not to rain on your parade but you already stated it perfectly before. Because your opponents had to plan to protect against industry (though you did not use it) you won handily. That is unacceptable. A team, and I want to underscore that, a full team had to play to beat a single commander which you had the choice of not even using.

It is true that we exploited the option not to use it for a rematch. And they went all in to defend themselves against something that never came. I would like to bring up a comparison here to CoH1 where you needed to know if there was a fast m8 or fast sherman on the way, or try to go straight for a hardcounter for a unit you THINK will arrive. However, since those are not DLC commanderbased, I guess that comparison isnt a good one, but still somewhat valid. That said, I think players also need to look for tells. What is my opponent doing? I cant say that Ostheer T2 is a bad option. PGrens are a good investment anyways, and schreck up quite fast. If you listen into the fog of war, you can hear if a vehicle is coming or not, and with the timer you also know around when to listen for it. This way you could bring in a pak at a reasonable time. Also, you could see less infantry on the field for the player who brought the commander in question. Then you can react accordingly.

One m8 was coming, not potentially 4. If you watch the recent game of stephen vs barton (top wubbed replay 1v1 right now) you can see that during one point of the game, with barton holding less than half of the map, he simply could have forced his hand and destroyed stephen, even with stephen having close to maximum amount of AT out for the amount of time passed ingame.

Knowing how stupid Relic is at fixing things, they will make this commander useless. There are so many great options available to them instead of whatever they will probably do. Like making it a 2 cp conversion ability like OStheer has, making it a fuel decrease t34s only, etc. Heavy t34 play is fun and micro intensive and it's just not what you see from the abusive industry plares.

Well, yesterday I bought Rome II in Steam's autumn sales, so CoH2 can rest in peace now.

It's too sad this game have left me that bitter feeling, as I really loved vCoH.
But breaking the balance to sell DLC's and then delay a fix nearly a month is just too much. Relic has made me an unhappy customer, and that will be the last game I bought from them.

I will reinstall the game next year though, but probably it won't have players anymore.

Don't get your hopes up. I have uninstalled ROme 2. Even at patch 7 it is only pretty to look at and not a challenge to play and things in it are still pretty broken.

I am a HUGE fan of Total War games from the past (Didn't play past Kingdoms though as the mods on that were awesome) and this one is a huge disappointment. So I buoght Shogun Fall of the Samurai this W/E and am enjoying that, plus it has a Darth Mod available, which Rome 2 won't since they chased Darth away.

I still prefer COH1 though lately all the games have hackers trolling for noobs. Sync Hackers, lobby hackers, level hackers. Except on Weekends on when I see "friends" on it is impossible to find a fair game.

There is a systemic problem with DLC Commanders.

It means everytime more Commanders are launched, the baseline balance, even including previous DLC Commanders which have hopefully beem balanced by then, is thrown into imbalance yet again.

Imagine this game with 20-50-100 DLC Commanders available.
How is that possible to balance? Who the hell can balance 50 different Commander options, many of which with unique abilities, against each other?

Its a balance disaster waiting to happen, and gets worse with every DLC Commander added to the pool. Every new DLC Commader means more balancing effort in order to not only align its release with previous ones and the baseline, but also to align baseline and previous Commanders to that.

I appreciate and understand trying to make money, but there is a inevitable problem with this kind of DLC program.

Sooner or later, it will become impossivble to balance the ever growing pool of DLC Commanders, against each other.

If this continues as it is now, this game will with 100% certainty become "Company of Commanders".

Its an unsustainable model, in terms of balance. Sure, you can continue to release Commanders which beat the current flavor of the month, but even that is unsustainable, because invariably you will end up with Commanders so distanced and overpowered when xompared to vanilla ones, that there will be no choice than to buy a recent DLC to be able to match it.

In the first wave, the real Balance team managed to respond with an immediate hotfix. In the second, three weeks later, still no hotfixes. Im sure the DLC are making good money in the short term, but we have been repeatedly assured that Relics plans are long term. If this continues as it has now, there will be no long term. The commu ity will be decimated to only the relstively small pool of players who buy the most recent DLC. Its like shitting in your own backyard, eventually it stacks so high that nobody wants to be there.

Having a small pool of players who buy the DLC may make sense, superficially, fiscally, but when EVERYONE ELSE leaves the game, how long are even those DLC guys going to continue buying product when there is nobody exceot other DlC buyers to play against?

This kind of business model, in a game, has clearly only one impetus. Milk the hell out of the small pool of DLC purchasers before it dries up. Balance, as I explained esrlier, is a even more distant and a lost cause, with every single DLC Commander.

If the current trend continues, at this point next year, we will have more than double the current amount of DLC Commanders we have now. Imagine that.

That is literally, to be called "Company of Commanders" at that point.

Yes, industry is OP. The same Luftwafe (for 200mp you gain 150 muni or 50 fuel). Way is set doctrine ability on 1 command point. No more quick T-70 rush.

Don't get your hopes up. I have uninstalled ROme 2. Even at patch 7 it is only pretty to look at and not a challenge to play and things in it are still pretty broken.

I am a HUGE fan of Total War games from the past (Didn't play past Kingdoms though as the mods on that were awesome) and this one is a huge disappointment. So I buoght Shogun Fall of the Samurai this W/E and am enjoying that, plus it has a Darth Mod available, which Rome 2 won't since they chased Darth away.

I still prefer COH1 though lately all the games have hackers trolling for noobs. Sync Hackers, lobby hackers, level hackers. Except on Weekends on when I see "friends" on it is impossible to find a fair game.

Well, I played Shogun 2 already and enjoyed it a lot.

Contrary to CoH2, I want Rome II for singleplayer and coop playing, so I don't mind if the game is unbalanced or broken in multiplayer. And if single is broken too... well, then I'll have to wait


@Nullist, the issue with CoH2 is that it is a game that bleeds players each week, and the only answer that Relic has for retain some players is giving novelties each month in the form of DLCs that ruin the multiplayer experience for everyone.

Besides, I'm tired of waiting to see implemented things that everyone is asking since beta, like more small arms damage, or better cover defensive bonus. Instead Relic gives us Tiger Aces and KV2s that nobody asked for...

Probably there are more crazy commanders waiting, and more recycled vCoH1 maps in line, and even more epic units like Soviet Bear Cavalry, but I won't see it. I'm done with this game.
I'll try to repopulate the vCoH1 playerbase instead.

I like greeb, he took all the words out of my keyboard

There is no reason whatsoever to buy commanders, unless you want an advantage over your opponent.

We can't argue that commanders give diversity to the game's metagame, because not everyone has X and Y commander, and as such, it is only fully diverse for those willing to spend money on it.

It's a business model that will work for Sega, but it will not work for the game.

The problem is if no one buys commanders, we will never see a Deathstar... I truly believe that will be released with commander 100 in March as by that time the OP-ness will be strong in the commanders

Quite possible, but Stephenn is high up the ladder compared to alot of other players. I think the term noob is quite misleading here. If you are up top 100 are you still a noob? I think this is horribly elitist really. I would argue noob players are much further down the ladder. And if they can exploit the advantages of soviet industry, they would move up the ladder eventually facing better players like you or Stephenn, no?

Also, Im trying to give suggestions on how to tackle the commander. However, since I dont play 1v1s, I have to point towards another player I have seen do it well. Also, since you can watch and he is very helpfull in his stream, you usually get alot of god tips to bring to the next game you play. Since most of the players are not in the top 50-100 segment, I really think his comments could actually help alot of players, noobs or not.

Lastly, Im not saying that it shouldnt be nerfed, I think it should. Raising CP requirement for soviet industry ability up a commandpoint or so. Just trying to provide input to tackle the commander until(?) its nerfed.

I was using the term "noob" in a relative time, not in absolute terms. I meant he was playing against players far below him in skill.

I also use the term "noob" also in a derogatory manner to describe players who abuse this commander, because I've lost to terrible players (who would normally be ranked far lower) abusing this commander. There is absolutely NOTHING you can do against soviet industry in 1v1, if the opponent knows how to abuse it.

Stephenn is an anomaly in the ranking, as his W/L% is actually substantially lower than others on the ladder.

This is due, to his credit, to his ability to beat higher W/L players consistently EVEN THOUGH he often tries unorthodox builds which sometimes invariably end in defeat.

Nonetheless, and especially because of that, his place on the ladder is particularly deserved.

Salute to Stephenn. And your post-game strat analysis are good as gold.