T-70 Balance

After watching SNF and having experience it myself, I think it's fair to ask the question if the T-70 needs to be sightly nerfed even without taking into consideration the Soviet Industry Commander.

I think what I hate the most about it is that a PAK cannot hit the damn thing most of the time, so I think a vehicle size increase and make it 65 fuel would work.

Thoughts ?

scatter increase is already on the way.
I'm totally for a size increase but fuel increase will make a total nobrainer to go for a T34.
Manpower increase would be good as well (and will hurt industry much more since it eats manpower)

At 65 fuel, I think it would start to overlap with the t-34 too much. They're both AI tanks, and at that point 20 fuel wouldn't be to much to wait for.

I think the fuel should stay the same, but the potential moving-while-shooting nerf might put it at a good place. I'd like to see that implemented (if it indeed will be) before further balancing of it.


Basically what Tuvok posted as I was typing lol

Paks + shrecks do great against T-70s, especially shrecks in a hf, just watch my replay against Giap on how to successfully counter stuff. If we nerfed the T-70 anymore it would be pointless to get one, it's already got it's health nerfed, can take increased dmg from fausts, can no longer crush infantry, is more susceptible to pak fire, and can get blown up by teller mines. Just because I got lucky with my T-70s in SNF doesn't mean they're OP. I think the T-70 is fine as is, we just need more people to adapt to it/know what to do to counter it successfully, as many are still stuck to their hard lined gren strats/t2 flammer rushes.

Says the guy who relies on spamming T70's. Just sayin...

Says the guy who relies on spamming T70's. Just sayin...

I don't always rely on spamming T-70s, they're just useful in helping combat expected situations. I'm happy to recommend how to successfully counter them, but it seems many people as I've stated before are completely locked into their old strategies before patch when things were more German favored.

Says the guy who relies on spamming T70's. Just sayin...

The fuel cost it takes for a soviet to rush out a T-70 is exactly the same as the fuel cost it takes for the osteer to get a StugIII out if he skipped T2. And this is when soviets rush it, so no molotovs, no AT nades, and build T1 over the more useful T2 (T2 combines better with T3).

Outside of the industry commander, I don't really see why the T70s window of opportunity should be made any smaller than it already is.

I find it funny when people keep saying T-70s are OP, yet when I recommend how to counter them they just ignore this. Coming from the guy who knows T-70s inside and out, but okay just keep losing. I'd also be happy to provide replays to show how this is done the right way.

I'm very undecided on this topic.

The T-70 is extremely cost effective no doubt, but I think a higher fuel price would close it's already short window of opportunity.
Increasing the targetsize however seems to be a reasonable suggestion.

yeah I agree the fuel can stay at 55.

As Aerohank said, T70 hurts the most when german player tries to make PzIV as his first armored unit.
A Stug would save the day.

By the way, before talking about more nerfs to T70 we should see how new scatter works for it.
Although I'm not against a mp increase for the unit. Currently it's too cheap.

By the way, before talking about more nerfs to T70 we should see how new scatter works for it.

I wasn't aware of that and I agree, disregard my post then

Ok, fine increase the manpower cost. Generally as Soviets unless you're letting everything be shredded to 1 guy every engagement, you're never having MP problems. Maybe even as high as 150, it's totally negligible still at that price when upkeep means nothing.

I find it funny when people keep saying T-70s are OP, yet when I recommend how to counter them they just ignore this. Coming from the guy who knows T-70s inside and out, but okay just keep losing. I'd also be happy to provide replays to show how this is done the right way.

Replays please! Been on a skid lately, would like to see how others approach the t70.

Yeah, I think the scatter change, as others have said, are aimed squarely at things like the T-70. But it also happens to affect other infantry killers, like Soviet armor overall, and the Ostwind (albiet that has a much larger AoE).

Yeah, I think the scatter change, as others have said, are aimed squarely at things like the T-70. But it also happens to affect other infantry killers, like Soviet armor overall, and the Ostwind (albiet that has a much larger AoE).

ostwind, p4, t70 and t34 all have the same AOE.

Well then, the effects programmer has some work to do or something else is going on with that other than raw stats. Either way, the Ostwind's blast seems to have a bigger spread that throws out fragments like grenade explosions do. So, if it's just a graphical effect, that needs to change to truly represent its area of effect. If it's actually causing damage, then there's a secondary frag effect being applied not listed in the stats dump.

Then there's the damage spread and fall off.

Either way, the scatter change still helps infantry survive against tanks that are closing in, or chasing them down. It helps even out situations where tanks are driving back and forth around infantry to force them to dodge, or to try and crush them since less damage from the main guns are applied on average.

No Turtle.

You are still confusing Ostwinds multiple shot salvo with same AoE. Wooof already specifically corrected you in thatl yet still you try and twist that into your earlier mistake.

The AoE is the same, however since Ostwind fires in salvos, it applies that AoE 4-5 times (i forget how many shots) rather than in one shot. Basically these units AI efficacy is vested primarily in their rate of fire, not in AoE. If T70, PIV or T34 fired at the same rate as Ostwind, they would basically be as effective AI. They are still affectively AS effective, per shot, though, as the Ostwind. The Ostwind just has a faster fire rate.

Scatter will affect Ostwind too, but less so, because it can still fire off more shots in the same period, meaning still has a better chance to score hits, due simply to makinf more hit rolls in the same period of time.

Its probably the 222 that will suffer the most from this change, and frankly, I think its high time this unit fot some attention.

I think its an excellent change for all shell vehicle chasing/kiting of infantry.
The general principle that Armor accuracy should suffer when moving has already been applied to AT, its high time it was applied to AI as well, in terms of the mainguns.