Pak43 buff

...Soviet artillery is almost all doctrinal anyway.

?

Mortar
Zis barrage
(both of which come out at T1 time for Ost)

Su76
Kats
(Come out at T2-T3)

and then you get to doctrinal arty (of which there is an amazing amount).

If anything soviets have plenty of on map non-doctrinal artillery. Even more than Wehr did.

I have never managed to keep one of these crewed long enough to have it engage a tank. Once I had one kill an SU85. Don't forget if IS2 or 152 fire even one shot at it sometimes it causes full squad wipe.

Use festung armour and hull down an ostwind in front of it Infantry cant come close, planes will get shot down.


Like Courier said, you HAVE to know your picking this against the correct doctrines.

I have never played a game where I have almost 1000 mp to deny a small area a chance to use armor.

Fine, be a cheap skate and build a bunker

I certainly don't think it's unreasonable have a pak43 and an ostwind in the most contentious part of the map.

As people already said, it's very situational. I think it's best used on maps with many obstacles and buildings (Rostov, City 17). And always place it behind buildings and obstacles, so your enemies have no direct line of sight and high structure will shield it against Katjusha fire for a while.

It needs 4 dudes and maybe a little bit more health...It is super situational and has a half-life of about 5 mins before it gets artied. Still for a unit that can knock the living daylights out of well-defended SU-85s or late game tanks, it's fairly cheap for the price and sometimes the damage you do in that 5 minutes before it gets artied is worth it.

But generally, I don't like it or use it much because I just dislike making units I know are going to have a small shelf life. It is similar to the Flak 88 in vCOH in that regard but those things had a ton of health, and could get more through vet, so arty was less of a problem.

i love this unit, in a even game and i see enemy tanks is gathering though teammate's scout plane. so i built a pak43 near the riverbank near their gather area and send in a sniper and few infantry units to scout, my pak43 killed 2 ISU 152, (1 is actually after battle and it was repairing in the back but it was still in teh range of my Pak43 and got vision from my teammate's scout plane again and killed it) 4 T34/76 （pretty much 1 shot each)

i agree that this unit need a hold fire button and maybe add camo upgrade that cost ammo and this thing need to STOP STOP firing at infantry!!!

Weird how no one has mentioned that this gun can shoot through freaking walls. You can build it behind a building and still shoot right through it.

It's a really strong element that I really don't see people use effectively enough.

Sluzbenik, your correct about arty, but for 1v1 look at the doctrines. There are a few popular soviet ones that rely on T3 or even no T3 or T4, and don't have any decent arty strike.

Furthermore, pak43 comes at 7 CP. so the only off maps that can counter instantly are incendiary arty, and even that will only decrew, so nothing a cheap squad and half track won't counter.

So if you identify correct doctrines to use it against, and use any CP window with lack of counters, it's a real bitch

in big team games the pak is a joke because almost guaranteed at least one soviet player with have arty in some form

in big team games the pak is a joke because almost guaranteed at least one soviet player with have arty in some form

Same can be said about soviet howitzer and a lot of another emplaced units.

Sadly in teamgames we'll never achieve a perfect balance, and static units are the ones that suffer the most the increase of units moving through the battlefield. Buffing them to prevent that will destroy 1vs1 balance.

A crew increase would have very little effect, because generally an explosive or offmap that is caoable of killing 3 men, will just as well kill 4 men.

If you want to see something really hilarious, throw a Molotov on the PaK43.
The models with roast almost instantly with no recourse for retreat or movement.
They just flat out die

Same is ofc also true of Howitzers, but as those are usually further back, and even more commonly inside the base under base MG cover, that is less signficant.
As to PaK43s howeverm thats really all it takes. A single measly penetrating Con with their Molotov.

Unfortunately this thread carriesma great deal of 1v1 vs teamgame confusion.
But I suppose that is in the nature of the beast, would still help significantly in understanding peoples posts if they specified what mode thay are talking about, because it does realoy make a huge difference for many reasons.

Thing with pak43s is that most means Soviets have of combating them, use decrewing.


You should certainly be using a HT near by these units, with plenty of supporting troops, exactly like Flak88 in coh1.

Decrewng it and re-crewing it is the whole game mechanic of these units.

Soviets have a bit less actual solid ways to flat out kill it in one. On map arty is probably the best. IL2 bomb is only in a few mostly underused docs and expensive.

A single Molotov is all you need to clear it..

If you want to see something really hilarious, throw a Molotov on the PaK43.
The models with roast almost instantly with no recourse for retreat or movement.
They just flat out die

It would be nice if you could manually decrew and recrew the weapon like with airborne in the CoH1 campaign, in that mission where they attack the V1 facility, so you can dodge molotovs. There's probably a way to abuse this in some manner, but it's just a thought.

I agree that this unit functions very differently in team vs 1v1 games. In my experience (primarily team games) I have no reason to build these. I build them occasionally but it is extremely difficult to use them effectively.

It is true Ost off map can destroy many Soviet emplacements, but these have the advantage of still getting to fire first since the player won't know about them until then (or shouldn't if they are placed properly). The Pak 43 by comparison must be brought close to the front line and is often killed in the first engagement.

I don't have a perfect solution for this, but I think this unit needs to be reworked in some way. Even when this unit is placed correctly it still has to point the right direction or any tank will be able to kill it without taking damage. This means once its down you need to scouting around it constantly in all directions to know where to point it. The 88 in vCOH was much better at aerial denial because it could turn on circling units and engage them, though it rewarded good scouting to give it max range.

Shooting through walls is cool, but since that mostly just means it fires at infantry which is not particularly useful, it is still very vulnerable. Most of the time I just see people kill it with artillery instead of getting in close anyway. A single lucky mortar shot is sufficient. I would rather have a Pak 40 in must cases then this and save the mp and huge pop drain.

Yeah like I said Nullist, decrewing it shouldnt be a problem, because you should have the means to recrew it quickly. If not, its not propperly supported.

Flak88 got decrewed all the time, you just re-man it.


Actually killing the thing flat out, takes quite a bit more effort from the soviet.

This is a great unit that adds long range AT superiority to the german force. In theory, this means you cannot be beaten because you can guard it with infantry and ostwinds etc.

My problem with it is that it's too easy for the soviets to dominate this thing with artillery. I think there's room for improving the pak 43.

In my opinion the katusha and the mortars should be maybe slightly less efficient vs the pak43. Remember the 17 pounder in vcoh? It was not decrewable by snipers or mortars. Only the stuka and shreks could take it out.

Now I dont think it should be as the 17 pounder. But it hardly is close to this today.

The way I see it, the main way to take out AT guns should be infantry and flanks. But even 2 katusha rocket hits stands to decrew the pak 43.

this is conjecture of course, but you don't see much pak43s in replays or in games. I believe its because you are so reliant on completely destroying any katushas and keeping his mortars occupied. A small buff the the surviability of the pak43 crew and emplacement would make it worth its cost more.

I agree, it could use some buff.

Especially vs calliope and Land Mattress it's very weak

8/8 necro skillz