It's insane how little relic has learnt

When you play CoH3 for the first time, you come across many gameplay and balance decisions, which are simply mind-boggling. Now, if this was their first CoH, this could be understandable. But they have two games to look at. Yet they included the following things from the other two games, which they had to learn were just either hated or simply broken/nonsensical:

- Loiters: Why are they even in the game? They are a braindead ability that everyone already hated in CoH2. Initially, they were of course even more broken than in 2, and even now they are just dumb and shouldn't be in the game

- Durable main line infantry with very good at: Remember Schreck Volk blobs? They are back baby, stronger than ever. Be it in the form of Boys or Jägers!

- Unbalanced AA: What a nice idea to give one faction an aa-tool that forces you to drop paras in your own base or risk losing them. While the other factions don't even know what AA means.

- Sim City: Our favourite is/was back! Sim City. This time even more extrem. Faster, harder, stronger.

- Forward reinforce. You remember how they literally had to change this from 2? Well, the message certainly didn't come through here.

- Elite infantry with excessive snare availability? Because why have a stone/scissors/paper principle when your specialist can fulfill any role!

- Calling in units that can instantly use their abilities. MG in a house? Simply drop Fpios, drop satchel, problem solved. No cooldown. Falls also don't require weapon upgrades... just like before they had to change it in 2.

- At guns being able to shoot through anything. Sounds like the Pak43, but in fact every at gun can now do this in CoH3. Thanks to the mighty patch overreaction (without ofc fixing the real problems like at gun survivability)

- Call-in meta. Call-ins are back on the menu boys! Because who wants to play the way the game is intended when you can build one tech building and do the rest via call-ins? It's not like this was something that they painstakingly had to fix in 2, but whatever I guess?

- Talking about call-ins, what about combat groups (when you call in more than just one unit, see EZ8 for example). They changed this for most abilities in CoH2 (mostly by putting the new unit behind tech), because more often than not, you don't want another engi squad or whatever the game "generously" gives your "for free".

- Healing: Why is healing so stupidly distributed once more. Why does DAK need a truck that costs pop cap for a simple base heal? This is a bit like in CoH2 before they introduced medics for Brits, where you had to rely on section healing... that's less than optimal.

- Etc. etc., I bet there are so many things I have forgotten right now.

Now, you might say "but they fixed it already/are going to fix it". Maybe. But that's not the point. The fact that they understand so little about their own game, is just painful. And yes, I know, I know, new developer team and what not. But still, have they never seen CoH in their life before? Didn't they do any research? I think this is just another proof of the conceptual laziness that went into this game and it is frankly insulting that we are having to discuss the same nonsensical stuff once more... discussions we already had before.

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I preached this all week 1 of the game launching. COH3 literally has half the player base of COH2. Voidtrain comes out today!!.

I’ve tried to COHPE. In reality. All good things eventually must end. I don’t see how Relic can turn the player base around even with another patch. Considering the last patch did nothing to retain players.

I still blame the COH1 clowns. The game feels off. The “tactical” “strategy” feels washed. Insane amount of punishment removed from the game. Also just skill influenced mechanics that made the game interesting/fun. Big wipes, grenades on retreat. Crush/light vehicle pushing. Punishing players for over extending and being greedy.

Since my twitch ban. I have played 1s and they are decent. But team games is the life of COH and team games in COH3 are 1000 times worse than COH2. I’ve said it on stream before. But in all the COH3 games I’ve played. I have not had any EPIC moments similar to what COH2 can give me. The twinkle in my eye during a big engagement in COH2 has not been replicated in COH3.

But yea all your points are valid. The amount of time required to fix this game outweighs the patience of the community. Indicators being the less than 3000 player base that’s continuously dropping. But GLHF!!!

I preached this all week 1 of the game launching

People been preaching this day 1 of the first MP test tbh

I preached this all week 1 of the game launching. COH3 literally has half the player base of COH2. Voidtrain comes out today!!.

I’ve tried to COHPE. In reality. All good things eventually must end. I don’t see how Relic can turn the player base around even with another patch. Considering the last patch did nothing to retain players.

I still blame the COH1 clowns. The game feels off. The “tactical” “strategy” feels washed. Insane amount of punishment removed from the game. Also just skill influenced mechanics that made the game interesting/fun. Big wipes, grenades on retreat. Crush/light vehicle pushing. Punishing players for over extending and being greedy.

Since my twitch ban. I have played 1s and they are decent. But team games is the life of COH and team games in COH3 are 1000 times worse than COH2. I’ve said it on stream before. But in all the COH3 games I’ve played. I have not had any EPIC moments similar to what COH2 can give me. The twinkle in my eye during a big engagement in COH2 has not been replicated in COH3.

But yea all your points are valid. The amount of time required to fix this game outweighs the patience of the community. Indicators being the less than 3000 player base that’s continuously dropping. But GLHF!!!

Yes, I understand that. Even when watching casts by Tightrope, they don't catch me at all like the ones of CoH2 matches do. They somehow lack the oompfh, where it is really hard to pinpoint what the actual problem is. Most likely it is a mix of several problems coming together. Team games are pretty rough atm; between the small player base, even more necessity to stick to the meta than in CoH2, leavers, extremely unbalanced teams, and just stupid design decisions, plus limited and bad maps it is hard to see why this is the case.

Relic at this point is just not competent enough to make COH3 as good as it should/could be. I have given up on this.

Unfortunately COH2 has gotten very boring as well and there is no new content so COH is dying in general. Well done Relic.

Maybe we will get COH2 remastered in a few years but even that`s going to flop unless Relic hires new devs. Then there is the economic situation surrounding them. They have been cutting corners when developing COH3 already. Considering how poorly COH3 is doing this might have been their last game.

Relic at this point is just not competent enough to make COH3 as good as it should/could be. I have given up on this.

Unfortunately COH2 has gotten very boring as well and there is no new content so COH is dying in general. Well done Relic.

Maybe we will get COH2 remastered in a few years but even that`s going to flop unless Relic hires new devs. Then there is the economic situation surrounding them. They have been cutting corners when developing COH3 already. Considering how poorly COH3 is doing this might have been their last game.

I tried to go back to CoH2 for a moment, just to be hit with the ultra-stupid controls (u for reverse, t for retreat...). And yes, the meta is stale as hell and will never change, which is less than optimal. I don't want to return to CoH2, but I have low hopes for 3...

I tried to go back to CoH2 for a moment, just to be hit with the ultra-stupid controls (u for reverse, t for retreat...).

My bro... You know you can enable Grid Hotkeys in coh2 right?

I preached this all week 1 of the game launching. COH3 literally has half the player base of COH2. Voidtrain comes out today!!.

I’ve tried to COHPE. In reality. All good things eventually must end. I don’t see how Relic can turn the player base around even with another patch. Considering the last patch did nothing to retain players.

I still blame the COH1 clowns. The game feels off. The “tactical” “strategy” feels washed. Insane amount of punishment removed from the game. Also just skill influenced mechanics that made the game interesting/fun. Big wipes, grenades on retreat. Crush/light vehicle pushing. Punishing players for over extending and being greedy.

Since my twitch ban. I have played 1s and they are decent. But team games is the life of COH and team games in COH3 are 1000 times worse than COH2. I’ve said it on stream before. But in all the COH3 games I’ve played. I have not had any EPIC moments similar to what COH2 can give me. The twinkle in my eye during a big engagement in COH2 has not been replicated in COH3.

But yea all your points are valid. The amount of time required to fix this game outweighs the patience of the community. Indicators being the less than 3000 player base that’s continuously dropping. But GLHF!!!

coh3 just felt distanced in 2v2. In the beta, i did not like the auto reinforce auto vaulting forward recrewing. I believe such mechanics takes away too much of user attention.

relic removed crush, vehicle pushing. retreat wipes seem inconsistent, somedays 8rad or sherman can wipe easily.

lastly did you know you cannot repair base structures? ukf or usf can spam their arty units early on, and you cannot even get a tank to take them down.

When you try and make each faction too unique to the other. There will always be improper balance. Simple is always better.

You cant take so many features that made coh2 better and not implement them in coh3. The whole fan base feels cheated by the lack of content.

Do not forget about giving Axis superior artillery once again, one of prime things that always made coh2 unbalanced in team games.

Do not forget about giving Axis superior artillery once again, one of prime things that always made coh2 unbalanced in team games.

is this why the bishop was nerfed and the wespe was buffed? or is dak stuka spam too much to handle

Relic at this point is just not competent enough to make COH3 as good as it should/could be. I have given up on this.

New Relic = EA Bioware 2.0
The inmates are running the asylum.
Dysfunctional corporate oppression = 1984.
Functional oppression = China.
It's not just Corporate Relic/Sega (follow the money for the truth).

For some proof that Western Corporate marketing is evil;
Army Recruitment Ads - International Comparison:

Woke US Army Goes Full Cringe SJW (Marine Reacts):


I can tell from experience that this is true;


Holding hands and singing kumbaya might work with a perfect universe. Unfortunately, evil does exist and yes we do need good soldiers.
North America is being groomed to become a global Darth Vader.

So you want a WOKE society without womanhood?
EctoLife: The World’s First Artificial Womb Facility:

Well, that was an interesting read. Always good to see some good old right-wing propaganda in a video game forum. At least, it is not concealed this time

load of bullshit

My assumption with all the cheap bs like loiters, blob frontline re-inforce / heal, and the faster tick rate for pacier games, was that it was built that way for the console port, and Relic were doing the maximum they could to suit the game to consoles while trying to keep the core PC base happy. Of course they've got it disastrously wrong.

Completely agree re team games: I simply stopped playing Coh3 many weeks ago because even if you were microing as intensely as in Coh2, you just wouldn't have any sense that you were having fun. There were no exciting big moments in a game or any of the fun risk/reward situations you could build up to.

I do agree with a lot of what OP said. As soon as I saw Falls and Commandos in tech test I was flabbergasted as to why they had snares (granted COH3 snare mechanics makes this less OP but it's still questionable). Anti-everything Luftwaffe loiter is a travesty when Sector Overwatch in COH2 is universally hated as a "Iwin" button. Easy 8 buffs show how easy it is to push game into full-on call-in meta. The list does indeed go on...

I think the balance team has done a good job overall but I'm not sure if it's just hubris on part of them thinking they can make these things work this time around? Or maybe they just were scared to be accused of re-skinning COH2 and keeping too much of the same mechanics?

is this why the bishop was nerfed and the wespe was buffed? or is dak stuka spam too much to handle

Or why the whizbang has mortar range doctrinal and sucks, while the werfer is non doct causes wide area destruction and to add to the bullshit also incerates the ground and will burn units to death making it near impossible to even retreat support weapons and lots of time infantry as well as they burn to death retreating through it, its a joke. It would be like if the landmatrress dropped white phos with every rocket it landed and it burned units to death not just to 1 hp.

Or why the whizbang has mortar range doctrinal and sucks, while the werfer is non doct causes wide area destruction and to add to the bullshit also incerates the ground and will burn units to death making it near impossible to even retreat support weapons and lots of time infantry as well as they burn to death retreating through it, its a joke. It would be like if the landmatrress dropped white phos with every rocket it landed and it burned units to death not just to 1 hp.

Yeah, whizbang sucks. I'm sure it'll be tweaked. In the meantime you can abuse delayed HE (can blow up tigers with 1000 pen) mortars or fuck support weaps with white phos/scotts that does actually kill.

Do not forget about giving Axis superior artillery once again, one of prime things that always made coh2 unbalanced in team games.

Main reason why i dont want back to coh2 teamgames. Alies (ukf,usf) always forced to pick commanders with Arty meantime stuka zu fuss ready to rape you around cp3-4.

I do agree with a lot of what OP said. As soon as I saw Falls and Commandos in tech test I was flabbergasted as to why they had snares (granted COH3 snare mechanics makes this less OP but it's still questionable). Anti-everything Luftwaffe loiter is a travesty when Sector Overwatch in COH2 is universally hated as a "Iwin" button. Easy 8 buffs show how easy it is to push game into full-on call-in meta. The list does indeed go on...

I think the balance team has done a good job overall but I'm not sure if it's just hubris on part of them thinking they can make these things work this time around? Or maybe they just were scared to be accused of re-skinning COH2 and keeping too much of the same mechanics?

Hard to tell why they felt the need to introduce this nonsense all over again, but I think it has less to do with hubris but a lack of research. It shouldn't be hard to find out why these things didn't work, yet they probably didn't pay attention and just went along with it. It is baffling how many mistakes they repeated in this game, things they should have learnt by now...