Some random changes I thought of while watching ML

I think most saw that the tourney was mostly SOV vs OST, thinking about it don't remember any one winning with another faction. What I found interesting was the announcers kind of repeating what everyone usually states about Penal/Rifleman bleeding to much, sandbags, mainline scaling along with commander choice. I know there probably won't be another patch but would be fun to argue some stuff.

About Rifle/Penal bleed: even with mobile reserves Penals tend to bleed a lot more than soviet faction is designed around. The 2MP is barely noticeable which is why I was thinking make it 4MP. Since Rifleman have similar playstyle and reinforce I would give them similar discount at Major tech.

Grens/PG: I don't really know how to address this since most players like to quickly pump out as many Grens as possible early. Nicko showed that an MG-less opening is a viable strat with the main weakness being bleed so to promote PG I was thinking of making LMG upgrade more expensive since the units playstyle works really well for late game fighting. I don't really want to increase MP cost since their reinforce cost is so high so muni cost might make PG more attractive.

PG: If muni cost isn't enough I was thinking of making G43 upgrade all 4 models, since PG aren't as blobby as PF it shouldn't be as big a problem. For team games it could be a problem but MP cost/Timing/Reinforce/muni cost should put a cap on potential.

Conscripts: The comeback potential despite bad play is a bit much especially with 7-man upgrade. I think also bumping their muni price would be wise. Right now the unit is too cheap for what it gives, say 80 muni also.

Weapon crate: Not really from the tournament but from watching different casted games, SVT conscripts are too good for their cost. The price should also be increased to 80 muni to slow it down. Along with price increase Penal squads should get double DP28 this would make upgrade equally attractive while being fairly expensive.

Sandbags: I think there should be a max of 5 sandbags per player. Sandbags become more tactical and requires micro when max has been reached.

Conscript Assault Package: Give Penals option to upgrade also, concripts get 4/Penal get 6 PPSH. It can open up different commanders such as soviet reserve or advance warfare to Penal starts.

I think with toning down Soviets/Ost it would allow OKW USF a little more play.

Hard disagree on what you said about OST.

Just because some "pro" player (if there even is such a term) ditched the MG opening does not mean it's viable. One of the selling points of OST is being able to lock down territory with insta suppressing MG42 in order to try to weather out early and mid game where OST is the weakest.

Basically, up until the first PzIV the OST player is always at a disadvantage. Not to mention T70 rolling around when no PAK is made.

All in all, for me the double MG42 opening I play is the strongest opening there is in the whole COH2. For that, you trade early and mid game effectiveness for long term performance. Ditching that opening makes OST a worthless faction imho. No need to imitate the best players. For 99% of people, MG opening is the best meta for OST.

You have to be a retard to use PGs with the G43 commander. 3 LMG Grens do the job just fine. PGs get shrecks and roam around 2-3 at a time to punish Shit34-rushes and AA-halftrack.

The rest of your text just trashes SOV foundations. They are meant to be easily replacable given how shitty they perform. Cons can't do shit without a T70 or a mortar or a maxim gun on their own they are used to solidify positions and molotov rush MG they were never meant to be a combat unit to go toe to toe with Grens or Volks or Obers. 7 man upgrade just makes them more resilient. Not more combat effective.

I cannot recall the last time I played against PenalPPSH tbh.

"About Rifle/Penal bleed:"
There is no need to buff these units or to promote blobbing more so imo it not a good idea

"Grens/PG:"
increasing the MU cost of lmg upgrade is also not advised since Ostheer already need lots of mu in the early game.

"PG: "
PG use their own version of G43 and they really do not need a buff giving 4 G43 would only make sense if the weapon was redesigned.

"Conscripts:"
Increasing MU cost is not a great idea in this case either

"Weapon crate:"
ability is simply badly designed and should be removed

"Sandbags:"
They should simply not be available to mainline infatry

"Conscript Assault Package:"
The idea of everything conscripts get should be also be available to Penal is flawed in it core further reducing the reason to use both. There should be commander designed for conscript play and commander designed for Penal play. So again imo no

community balance developers be like: "today i didn't see any cloud in the sky, this means i must nerf soviet airborne"



+ penals should've gotten at least 1 commander who gives them dp-28s at tier 4 a long time ago

Just my thoughts as midrank 2v2 SOV main player: penal build is a viable strat. That would may sound crazy, but they do feel like 0cp half elite infantry. Lots of clost-midrange firepower from the start of the game. As if balance team put all the eggs in the "DPS" basket, which left none for the utility one Very useful when you want just brut force push the opponent away. And, Relic forbid, somebody drops an LMG and Penals pick it up. Because of
Show Spoiler
But they do bleed a lot. Kind of makes recrewing multiple team weapons a very costly choice. The closest unit is riflemen, imo, minus mobility DPS + 1 dude, which do have similar setbacks if you start losing, which can't be replaced by dirt cheap 7 men squad.

So from the personal experience playing 2v2 they are fine. Kind of an all-in'y start, but definitely can be used.

Just my thoughts as midrank 2v2 SOV main player: penal build is a viable strat. That would may sound crazy, but they do feel like 0cp half elite infantry. Lots of clost-midrange firepower from the start of the game. As if balance team put all the eggs in the "DPS" basket, which left none for the utility one Very useful when you want just brut force push the opponent away. And, Relic forbid, somebody drops an LMG and Penals pick it up. Because of
Show Spoiler

But they do bleed a lot. Kind of makes recrewing multiple team weapons a very costly choice. The closest unit is riflemen, imo, minus mobility DPS + 1 dude, which do have similar setbacks if you start losing, which can't be replaced by dirt cheap 7 men squad.

So from the personal experience playing 2v2 they are fine. Kind of an all-in'y start, but definitely can be used.

in a 3v3 perspective

the clown car is perhaps the most fun (and also devastating - you can kill an enemy squad on retreat reliably) weapon that I used. Paired with tank hunter, defense tactics or urban defense, you can also negate the lack of ATG without utilizing penal PTRS

Just my thoughts as midrank 2v2 SOV main player: penal build is a viable strat. That would may sound crazy, but they do feel like 0cp half elite infantry. Lots of clost-midrange firepower from the start of the game. As if balance team put all the eggs in the "DPS" basket, which left none for the utility one Very useful when you want just brut force push the opponent away. And, Relic forbid, somebody drops an LMG and Penals pick it up. Because of
Show Spoiler

But they do bleed a lot. Kind of makes recrewing multiple team weapons a very costly choice. The closest unit is riflemen, imo, minus mobility DPS + 1 dude, which do have similar setbacks if you start losing, which can't be replaced by dirt cheap 7 men squad.

So from the personal experience playing 2v2 they are fine. Kind of an all-in'y start, but definitely can be used.

Yea, I have been playing a bit more team games lately and they are great in team games since team mate can cover weakness. Like you said any misplay as Penal/Rifle and your really setback. Also I feel like the Vet1 works great as an SMG Squad since you are rewarded for staying in the fight and at VET2 according to Feb patch 20% cooldown/23% rec acc/30% Acc bonus make them probably the hardest hitting SMG unit at that timing. The problem is there is only one way to get SMG.

Also Katukov Soviet Reserve would work great in team games since you can get an AT drop without teching and commissar for buffs and fear propoganda.

Also Katukov Soviet Reserve would work great in team games since you can get an AT drop without teching and commissar for buffs and fear propoganda.

reserve is bad because you only get an AT/MG and the commissar but nothing else that will help you fight later on.

The lack of doctrinal tank isn't exactly helping, it is a doctrine with alright early support but with no late game impact

reserve is bad because you only get an AT/MG and the commissar but nothing else that will help you fight later on.

The lack of doctrinal tank isn't exactly helping, it is a doctrine with alright early support but with no late game impact

My bad was thinking of a commander that would benefit Penals if SMG could be given. SMG Penal with Commissar buffs would allow for some interesting combos. But yes as it stands the commander requires coordination with allied players to get maximum benefit. However, fear propaganda along with howitzer in 3v3 or 4v4 is fairly potent.

About Rifle/Penal bleed: even with mobile reserves Penals tend to bleed a lot more than soviet faction is designed around. The 2MP is barely noticeable which is why I was thinking make it 4MP. Since Rifleman have similar playstyle and reinforce I would give them similar discount at Major tech.

Penals are already viable. I dont know why Penals have to be as good as Cons, the best stock mainline infantry atm.
Volks and Rifleman have some issues thats for sure though. But reducing the reinforce cost for every unit makes not much sense.

Grens/PG: I don't really know how to address this since most players like to quickly pump out as many Grens as possible early. Nicko showed that an MG-less opening is a viable strat with the main weakness being bleed so to promote PG I was thinking of making LMG upgrade more expensive since the units playstyle works really well for late game fighting. I don't really want to increase MP cost since their reinforce cost is so high so muni cost might make PG more attractive.

PG: If muni cost isn't enough I was thinking of making G43 upgrade all 4 models, since PG aren't as blobby as PF it shouldn't be as big a problem. For team games it could be a problem but MP cost/Timing/Reinforce/muni cost should put a cap on potential.

Conscripts: The comeback potential despite bad play is a bit much especially with 7-man upgrade. I think also bumping their muni price would be wise. Right now the unit is too cheap for what it gives, say 80 muni also.

Ostheer is already muni starved compared to soviets. If the lmg cost is increased, cons will have an even easier match up. I rather decrease the dmg of the lmg a bit and maybe give them better acc on vet 3 to compensate. So their midgame shock value is not as oppressive.

Sandbags: I think there should be a max of 5 sandbags per player. Sandbags become more tactical and requires micro when max has been reached.

Sandbags should cost munition. Maybe 25 like a grenade.

Yea, I have been playing a bit more team games lately and they are great in team games since team mate can cover weakness. Like you said any misplay as Penal/Rifle and your really setback. Also I feel like the Vet1 works great as an SMG Squad since you are rewarded for staying in the fight and at VET2 according to Feb patch 20% cooldown/23% rec acc/30% Acc bonus make them probably the hardest hitting SMG unit at that timing. The problem is there is only one way to get SMG.

Also Katukov Soviet Reserve would work great in team games since you can get an AT drop without teching and commissar for buffs and fear propoganda.

I actually have no problems teching for T2 with t1 start, especially at p4 timing. It is really not that expensive and you get a very good AT in return. If you haven't built cons you are actually in small fuel net positive compared to t2 build (+5 I believe), since you have to tech nades for them. So that's why I never understood guys who religiously stick to t1, even when they are losing.

4 G43 Pgrens 😂😂😂😂😂😂